| Author |
Message |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 68
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 03:52 pm: |    |
I am independent, working for the Architect. One of their clients (in this case, the Owner is a public entity) wants the Contractor to do an asbestos survey and abatement, if required and wants me just to "put this in the specs" I have explained to the Architect that it isn't that simple and that they need to review their contract w/ the Owner before getting involved w/ hazardous materials. I don't know enough about hazardous materials to give good arguements why I don't want to "just put it in the specs"...
Can anyone give me some ammunition? |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 486
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 04:05 pm: | |
Asbestos abatement is a highly complex, nasty and messy situation, physically and administratively, usually best handled by companies that specialize in such work.
My experience has the owner under a separate contract for the abatement, away from the construction work. Better to start the construction work only AFTER the project area is cleaned, so there is very little to no chance of getting into more of the asbestos during construction.
Fundamentally it is an owner responsbility for having their site cleaned, BEFORE any one else works on it.
My advice-- while I have done specs for such a program, it was not used-- DO NOT just "write it in" the specs.
Ain't that simple. Let the specialists work! |
Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 355
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 04:16 pm: | |
Robin:
This is actually a liability issue that the architect's insurer (and possibly yours) may not cover. I'd suggest that they and you contact your carriers to get a reading on it before moving ahead with any construction documents for that type of work.
Like Ralph mentioned above, the owner typically handles this through a separate contract, and being a public entity, they may already have ID/IQ contracts for just that type of work. |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 448
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 04:55 pm: | |
Ron is correct; in another life I worked for a public entity and they did have yearly renewable Time and Materials contracts with companies such as asbestos abatement companies. (sort of like having a lawyer on a retainer). If the construction contract is written using AIA A201 for the general conditions, that document instructs the contractor to stop work if suspected asbestos (or other hazardous material) is encountered. If your contract includes asbestos removal, that's difficult to do.
I have seen it written into a general contract that asbestos removal is part of the deal, but it complicates things and the asbestos removal contractor is a sub-contractor to the general contractor. Guess who pays more as a result?
It just makes good construction, contract, and common sense if the Owner contracts with an asbestos removal contractor outside of the construction contract. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 603
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 05:49 pm: | |
Professional insurers routinely cover architects for asbestos work, provided the work is done by a qualified consultant. The abatement is also routinely done by contractors as part of construction projects, when included. It's my opinion that the abatement-in-advance method was more typical 20 years ago than it is now. The problem is how is the contractor to bid the cost of abatement?? This can be done on a unit price basis, but some base-level of work and types of ACM needs to be established. This is usually done by the asbestos consultant during design. However, it could still be possible to include abatement in a specification with a 100% up-charge unit priced method, with no base quanities and all possible types of materials covered. The owner will probably spend more money this way than by having the survey done in advance. In any case, the abatement spec should still be done by a quailified hazmat consultant. I wouldn't attempt to write this under any circumstances. |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 208
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 06:10 pm: | |
In the State of Texas, the "design" of hazardous materials abatement is done by licensed/certified professionals. An Architect is not permitted to do this work merely by virtue of his/her architectural registration.
When I have seen it included in the construction contract, it has always been in a separate volume with some Division 01 language clearly indicating who is and is not responsible. |
Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: don_harris
Post Number: 91
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 12:13 pm: | |
We have done two decommissioning and abatement projects. On both we had an abatement consultant that provided surveys, reports and specification sections totalling in the hundreds of pages to be included in the Project Manual. It is what the Owners (both large institutions) wanted. We felt comfortable with the level of expertise and the quality of the documents, so after some trepidation we did feel comfortable with the situation. I would never, never, never write the abatement sections myself. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 604
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 04:58 pm: | |
To clarify my prior posting: the situations I'm familiar with have always had licensed/certified hazmat specialists on them. The difference being that they were consultants to the architect, not the owner. It may be that professional registration regulations of some states do not permit this sort of arrangement. |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wyancey
Post Number: 213
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 06:30 pm: | |
My experience has been the Owner will provide a building free and clear of hazardous materials before the GC commences work.
Some abatement can be concurrent with new construction but in other sealed off parts of the building.
Owner hired a hazmat professional (professional hygenist) to monitor the work of the hazmat contractor and write the terms of reference in specification format for the abatement.
Wayne |
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