| Author |
Message |
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA
Senior Member
Username: delrodtn
Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 07:53 pm: |    |
Have any of you ever had to specify new interior aluminum entrances and storefront to match existing, and then include re-using existing storefront in an addition in Part 3-Execution? What's the best way to go about it, and do any of you have a section you would share as a guide spec for me to build upon?
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 1209
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 07:00 am: | |
Unless there is something very unqiue about the existing, from your comments it appears that a very small portion of the old would be re-used. Unless this has some direct issue with the job/work, I would suggest that retaining "some" old items may be more counterproductive-- just messy in working with it, taking extra time/care to dismantel it, trying to refurbish it, connect it, all knowing discoloration is present and little, really is gained. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:37 am: | |
Mr. Elrod,
I had to specify that for department store add-on.
Major things I added were 1) detailed pre-con/pre-install mtg req'ts additionally addressing subjects to discuss like salvage procedures, flashing details, and repair procedures post-install, 2) a general paragraph to "fabricate/finish new and repair/re-finish old", 3) mitigating appearance variations by arranging new/old, or providing new if unsatisfactory; the latter two under Part 2. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:49 am: | |
We successfully salvaged an exterior pair and interior pair of aluminum entrance doors and sidelights, including existing glass and hardware on an elementary school. Finish of existing aluminum is clear anodic coating. No issues were encountered during construction. No special mention in specifications; a clearly worded note on the drawings was all that was necessary. |
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA
Senior Member
Username: delrodtn
Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 11:11 am: | |
Thanks everyone. I will file away your comments for future reference. We've decided to follow Ralph's advice since we have a very small amount of it to re-use. Probably nor worth the effort. And, the existing will get recycled, so at least we're not contributing to a landfill.
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 991
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 12:36 pm: | |
I've done this once in a while -- the retained storefront needs to be covered in a "selective demolition" section regarding removal, renovation and storage of the old pieces; then its referenced in the "storefront " section as materials in storage. from that point on, it could be anything -- |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 452
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 05:58 pm: | |
I tend to think that the "reuse or recycle" decision on components like this are best made by the contractor. Architects rarely know enough about field operations to know whether reuse of items like storefront components is cost-effective. Picture dealing with fasteners, old joint sealants and gaskets, damaged pieces, misalignment of glazing channels between old and new components, and "oops, this stuff isn't thermally broken."
Reuse of materials is a great concept that doesn't always pan out. In the case of aluminum products, recycling isn't bad either. Leaving flexibility in the construction contract may not hurt. |
Curt Norton, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: curtn
Post Number: 168
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:31 pm: | |
Phil, I second that thought. |
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA
Senior Member
Username: delrodtn
Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 10:49 am: | |
We will leave it up to the Contractor. Perhaps it will get re-used on another project.
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA |
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA
Senior Member
Username: delrodtn
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 11:00 am: | |
One last question on this subject for you seasoned spec veterans...on a renovation project, in Section 08 41 13 Aluminum-Framed Entrances and Storefronts.
If you know you will have 3 work packages, and WP 1 is only storefront (no doors), but WP2 or WP3 most likely will have aluminum and glass doors, do you take all the verbiage regarding doors and hardware out of the spec section for WP1 then add it back in on one of the subsequent WP's? Seems like one step forward and two back. Your thoughts?
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA |
Mark Gilligan SE,
Senior Member
Username: mark_gilligan
Post Number: 299
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 12:02 pm: | |
The design professional will be pressured to use reused or recycled product more often by Leed and the new CALGreen code in California. |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 12:27 pm: | |
Dennis, I'd leave it all in and reference back. The spec writer typically does not determine how the project is packaged - and that may change mid-construction. The safest way is to produce the whole spec and leave it up to the CM or GC to package as they will.
Sometimes I'm asked to provide a spec that was previously issued for another package, and I'll make it clear that it is either being reissued, or issued for reference, or some other form of acknowledgment that it's not a new section.
In order to help control the quality of the product/project, the aluminum framing should be of the same manufacturer, and depending on the finish, should be fabricated at the same time, no matter when it's due to be installed. The GC or CM should realize that.
The short answer is no, don't take it out and add it back. Do it all together in one well-written, award-winning section! |
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA
Senior Member
Username: delrodtn
Post Number: 17
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 12:58 pm: | |
Thanks Lynn. That is what I will do.
Dennis C. Elrod, AIA |
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