| Author |
Message |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 325
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 03:33 pm: |    |
How often to you require it? Are there project types or sizes that you specify compliance more than others? What type(s) of projects? How often do you think it is actually provided (inspection, labels etc)? |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 04:21 pm: | |
You mean AWI (or WI)? I never specify Economy grade; makes no sense to require compliance with "standards" for the lowest grade. That said, I always specify, by default, "basic" certification/inspection for custom and premium grades, unless told specifically not to. Besides, it lets Owner decide to VE later.
AWI and WI have woodwork certification programs, consisting, to my understanding, of "roughly" two levels. The first is review of shops and some "basic" level of inspection; the second is a higher degree of inspection. I believe that for the former, accredited woodworker can essentially self-certify, while AWI/WI performs inspection for the latter. Unless the project is a very high-end corporate offices or similar project, I generally don't specify the latter inspection. |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 326
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 06:23 pm: | |
yes, I meant AWI - thanks! |
william munyan (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 04:33 pm: | |
The QCP is specified as often as you like. The program QCP does not certify the woodwork. Rather, QCP accredits woodworking firms to certify their work complies with the specifications and the referenced standards. QCP verifies compliance through the inspection process.
To get accredited, companies must own or lease a facility and woodworking equipment, and they must employ and supervise the people who manufacture architectural woodwork. The accreditation process typically takes 45-90 days. Those who pass (and, quite a few do fail) must have at least their first two certified projects inspected during fabrication and installation. Finally, all accredited firms must successfully complete the written test every two years and undergo biennial inspections. The application Fee to join: $1,650 - $3,100; there is a 150-Question Test; require 10 References (Architect/GC/Owner); Plant Inspections and Qualification Visit; Examples of Work for each AWS section and grade; Review of completed projects; Review of shop drawings
During the intense accreditation process, all woodworkers are inspected at least 3 times. They must undergo at least 2 project inspections and 1 plant inspection before they become fully accredited. After that, all woodworkers must be reinspected every 2 years in order to maintain their accreditation. The QCP inspectors must possess a minimum of 15 years in the industry. Everyone must have extensive experience at the bench, in the field, and in management. All inspectors must pass the written test and are required to attend annual orientations and training; and, all inspectors are periodically accompanied by their peers for training purposes; and by the Program Director for evaluations.
For Project Certification, Projects must be registered with QCP prior to the commencement of fabrication. The certification fee (what is charged to the project and paid for by the woodworker) is ˝% of the woodwork contract (Ex: $100,000.00 woodwork contract x 0.5%= $500.00) or $500, whichever is greater. An interesting item is that any party to the contract may request an inspection. Inspection reports are available 7 days after they are issued to the woodworker. There is no restraint of trade (GSA Architectural and Interior Design (P-100), 3.6 Interior Finishes; Architectural Woodwork states “Work under this section should be certified as meeting the referenced standard under the terms and conditions of the AWI Quality Certification Program.”).
It is nice to have a third party inspector review the work to verify what the owner has purchased |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 820
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 01:08 am: | |
All,
There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding in some comments here.
First though, William Munyan's comments are particularly valid given that he is a past president of the Quality Certification Corporation which is the entity set up by AWI for their certification program.
My own involvement with the program dates from my time on the AWI board of directors during the first year that the Certification Program completed trials and went 'public'.
When it comes to standards, there is now no difference between AWI and WI. The current edition is no longer called AWI's Quality Standards. To quote from the AWI web site, The Architectural Woodwork Institute, the Architectural Woodwork Manufacturers Association of Canada and the Woodwork Institute worked together the create the joint unified standard for the specification of qualities, methods, and workmanship to produce and install architectural millwork. Its all one standard now and is called "Architectural Woodwork Standards".
There is no such thing as a basic level of the AWI QCP program. You either are doing it, or not.
As William Munyan points out, there are 2 steps. The woodworker must themselves (or those they subcontract) be certified for the level of quality specified for fabrication, finishing and installation.
Then, they must register the project itself with the QCP program. Actually, the designer can register the project and get things started well in advance which is advisable. Still, the woodworker must obtain a certificate stating that they have licensed the project for the QCP program.
How often do I specify it? For any project that has an item of woodwork that is a significant or prominent item. It does not have to be a major installation of wood, it may simply be a feature wall in an entrance lobby, or it may only be a concierge desk in a lobby that is otherwise stone or other finishes.
Its our judgement that we put it in. If the owner questions it, our position is that 'you might get lucky, or you might not.' We won't take responsibility for a woodwork project that comes out badly where the QCP was removed. We have some really bad stories where it was removed, and we also have some great stories where it was used.
William
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate
WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 423
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 03:35 pm: | |
As is the case with many experience-related qualifications, this can work against you. In this area, one of the premier casework fabricators is not an AWI member, and will not bid on projects that require QCP. |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 989
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 04:32 pm: | |
I have two ways of specifying casework: either a selected subcontractor, known to my clients and with approved work (this is a directed sub-bid) OR I have the entire inspection program. In parts of California, the bidders are either AWI or WI, so I determine which is appropriate for a particular project, but I always include the inspection and certification program.
If, as in Sheldon's example, we want a known provider and know that they are not a member, then that portion of the project will be let separately.
And yes, most of the work I specify is "premium" grade for all visible items with "custom" quality used only for back of house (storeroom, etc) items. if you want economy grade, I don't see any point in using the inspection systems. |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 990
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2010 - 04:34 pm: | |
oh... as for "how often do I think it is provided" -- it IS provided every time I specify it. there's a cost added to the project, and the inspection reports, so we're well aware if the project is not being inspected and watched. |
Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: rlmat
Post Number: 396
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 02:07 pm: | |
Robyn,
Where is the project located?
Being that my projects are all in California, I normally specify the WI (Woodwork Institute) Quality Assurance & Compliance Programs for every project, even the small ones. The one project you leave it off on is the one that will have a problem.
Of course, I'm also on the WI Board of Directors
WI also has a presence in Arizona, Nevada, & Oregon
The Architectural Woodwork Standards (AWS) is now the same for both AWI & WI - the only difference being in their respective quality assurance programs.
You can contact me at rmatteo@tbparchitecture.com or 949.673.0300 x2524 if you would like more info on WI |
Bradley Roa, Director of Architectural Services
New member
Username: bradley_roa
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 08:07 pm: | |
Robyn,
As the Director of Architectural Services for the Woodwork Institute, it is my job to inspect fabricators' work and provide educational services in Arizona. Additionally, I have had the pleasure to provide information on the "Architectural Woodwork Standards" through The Reference Library, AIA Phoenix Chapter, AIA SAC, AIA Grand Canyon Chapter, and individual Arizona firms' "lunch 'n learn" programs. I would appreciate the opportunity to meet with you and/or you and your collegues. If you wish, I can host a CES seminar regarding the new standards and provide you specification samples. Through the seminar, you will get a good understanding of what is in the AWS and how Woodwork Institute's QCP works.
Please follow through and contact Richard Matteo and/or myself regarding the Woodwork Institute's Quality Assurance Program.
You can contact me at brad@woodinst.com or my office #562.496.4560 or my cell #916.214.9334
This invitation is for other members of this thread as well. |
Steve Taylor
Senior Member
Username: steveatwi
Post Number: 29
Registered: 07-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 12:14 pm: | |
Certificates and Labels for Woodwork Institute Certified Compliance projects can be issued two ways.
Licensees of the Woodwork Institute are issued certificates and labels on a job by job basis. The authorized party with the licensee company attaches the labels and signs the certificates based on their judgment that the work complies with the Standards and the specifications.
We realize that the shop may sometimes be optimistic, so we will re-inspect Certified Compliance projects at no cost if requested to by any interested party.
To this point our program is very much like the AWI Quality Certification Program. We differ in that non licensee shops can do Certified Compliance work if they have the work inspected by a WI inspector. This process is somewhat more expensive than the licensee cost.
The Monitored Compliance Program is structured for those who want all work inspected by a WI inspector. Monitored Compliance projects are inspected at each stage of the process including shop drawings, material, fabrication, and installation. Reports are issued after each inspection. Labels and certificates are issued by the inspector based on a passed inspection at the completion of installation.
It is important to note that the Woodwork Institute does not have the power to force the subcontractor to correct sub-standard work. If the owner's representative doesn't follow up on the inspection reports either program could be a waste of money.
Steve Taylor
Woodwork Institute. |
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