Informational Bids

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Author Message Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1081 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 02:50 pm:    I've not done Division 00 in quite some time. How do y'all handle Informational Bids? My initial thought was to request one each for site work, concrete work, masonry work, exterior enclosure, interior finish, fire suppression, mechanical, and electrical. The owner is requesting one per division. Which makes more sense? Which is defensible? Which is easier for the contractor? J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 436 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 03:10 pm:    Informational Bids? You mean a break down of the lump sum bid into smaller categories? I usually call this a Bid Tabulation Form. I usually request this broken down by Division, possibly with line items for "General Conditions", construction bonds, and overhead and profit. Any more detail may be used by an unscrupulous Owner to get a favored bidder to shop bids (yes, it did happen on one of my projects). I have had one very sophisticated, nation-wide retail client who requested a lot of data to load into their corporate data base. Otherwise the division-by-division detail seems to be sufficient to check whether or not anyone left something out. I do not require that this be submitted until after the bid has been submitted, either at the end of business day or by noon the next day. This gives Bidders an opportunity to include last minute subbids without a great deal of difficulty. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 350 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 03:42 pm:    I have done as Peter describes but it was called a Supplemental Bid Form - Subcontract Cost Breakdown; organized by Division (00 - 15 in those days) and section following the TOC of the project manual. Like Peter, it was not submitted with the bid but 24-48 hours later. It was rather detailed to mitigate bid shopping. If I can locate my last version, I will send it along FYI. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1082 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 03:54 pm:    Great - any help is appreciated. In case you've lost my eddress, it's ljavoroski@flad.com Karen L. Zaterman, CCS, LEED-AP, SCIP Senior Member Username: kittiz Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 05:23 pm:    I've never done anything like this but typically our Bid Forms are quite large and detailed. For instance my current project, about to go to Bid, contains 66 bid items. What you are describing sounds similar to a Schedule of Values that the Contractor is required to submit. It breaks down the lump sum items, too -- but to facilitate processing payments. Karen L. Zaterman, CSI, CCS, SCIP-Affil, LEED AP BD+C Moffatt & Nichol - Long Beach, CA J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 438 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 05:38 pm:    This is definitely not a Schedule of Values, but a break down of the bid into enough components to verify that components have been priced and priced accordingly. The problem that arises is usually with inexpererienced Owner that thinks this is a menu where he can choose one price from Contractor A, two from Contractor B, and so on. It is convenient not to have it part of the Bid Form because of the fluidity of pricing (usually right up to the time bids are due). Separating it into an attachment to be submitted later allows bidders to choose to take advantage of lower subbids that come in at the last minute. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1083 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 05:58 pm:    Unfortunately, this Owner wants pricing, by Division, submitted with the Bid. No options, no questions. So thanks all, for your help, understanding, and contributions. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 249 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 06:18 pm:    I am used to receiving full binders that break down the bid for major healthcare projects into Divisions and Sections as well as more broad definitions such as "building enclosure", or "foundation". The requirement to do this usually comes from the Owner to a Project Manager or General Contractor who is all ready on board. We as the Architects might get to provide suggested redmarks to the bullet item list, but we have never been in the driver's seat or provided the template document. Richard L. Hird (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 10:52 am:    I use to have to breakdown bids by Division to satisfy some client that I could not talk out this craziness. They were typically some individual working for client that was overly enamored with dreams of acting like his own General Contractor. My best objection to the idea was this just provides the bidder the opportunity to contractually obligate you to accepting front end loading of progress payments. If breakdowns are provided after the award they can be disputed, but they can not if it becomes part of the bid/contract. The biggest risk is that there can be disputes over what may fall between the cracks of "any" listing you come up with. They have deep pockets and typically do not care until there is a problem. Unfortunately they may expect you to have deep pockets. The safe way to do it, if you have no choice, is to have a category at the end of the list for "All Other Work", not defined by a spec Division or other breakout category. Also make sure there is a statement the individual prices have to add up to the whole. Randy Cox Senior Member Username: randy_cox Post Number: 73 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 02:13 pm:    If the Owner wants to play GC, they should have a GMP contract.. In that, they can require equal participation in buyout decisions. They also need to require the real GC to provide Bid Tabs. Those would be a tabulation form and a copy of each relevant bid. The tabulation needs to identify what is included and what is excluded from each bid, since they are usually apples and oranges, despite all of our efforts and the efforts of the contractor.