Where to specify swinging patio/balco...

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Author Message Susan McClendon Senior Member Username: susan_mcclendon Post Number: 73 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:08 am:    The doors in question are glazed aluminum doors, made more like a window than a door, in that they have a full frame at the sill for weather resistance. I see 4 options, none of them wholly satisfactory: 1. Aluminum doors and frames. This would combine them with interior doors not having the same weather performance requirements. 2. Aluminum windows. This has the virtue of similar performance requirements and even an AAMA Grade for them. 3. Sliding Aluminum Doors. Similar weather performance requirements, AAMA grade, but different operation. 4. Make up a new Masterformat number/title. A similar problem exists for wood patio doors made by the wood window manufacturers. Does anyone have any experience or opinion to share? William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 819 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:23 am:    Susan, Its more your personal preference, the contractor should find them easily enough. I have done a lot of projects with these type doors over the past several years. I put mine in the 084100, Entrances and Storefronts. I call them out as a specific generic type of door such that that same label appears on the drawings in the keynotes exactly the same. I put them there because these doors can also come with their own sidelight, transom, etc. combinations. I really don't like them in the window section, they are not windows, even the manufacturer calls them doors. And they are doors, they just come as a full package including hardware and frame. That does not make them a window. I have done this in numerous projects from high rise apartments and condos to high rise hotels in the Washington DC metro area and for projects in Texas for our office there. Never any problems or questions from contractors. William William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 976 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:41 am:    Susan: I often just retitle a section as "patio doors" -- I've worked on projects that typically have both sliders and the swinging patio doors and typically they both have different criteria than other doors -- they don't often have locks (other than thumbturns); they are more exposed to weather; they don't have typical door hardware; they are usually installed by the window guy or the provider of the exterior window system.... on and on. And in high rise residential, I do often put them with the exterior glazing systems -- we want the finishes to match and they are often detailed and framed in with the same framing used for the entire exterior elevation. as Willam says, sometimes its a matter of preference, not any degree of logical thought. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: robert_w_johnson Post Number: 77 Registered: 03-2009 Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:48 am:    Like William, I have done a lot of highrise condo projects with these types of doors. Unlike William, I have created a unique section for Aluminum Windows and Doors. They always come from the same mfgrs, have references to similar standards, and are often together in a single configuration. Just easeir to put them in one section. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1221 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 02:04 pm:    Perhaps you're referring to what is sometimes called a "terrace door," though it could be true of sliding doors, too. I think the best MasterFormat location for these is "08 17 13 Integrated Metal Door Opening Assemblies." A bit awkward, perhaps, but this is what they are. MF proposes alternate terms of "integrated door opening assemblies, preassembled door assemblies, packaged door assemblies, and pre-hung doors." Susan McClendon Senior Member Username: susan_mcclendon Post Number: 74 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 02:07 pm:    Thanks for all your comments. Unfortunately, I have to look at this from a master specification point of view, not just for project specs. Wherever they are specified needs to be a location that is compatible with any number of different combinations -- storefront, curtain wall, punched windows, sliders. From both the application and the specification point of view, I like putting them with the sliders best -- but I do have an obligation to at least try to conform to Masterformat (drat it!). Any other thoughts on this? Tom Gilmore, AIA, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: tgilmore Post Number: 25 Registered: 04-2007 Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 04:46 pm:    Susan, as a SpecLink user, I have modified your 08 51 13 (08520) Aluminum Windows, and when I need terrace doors, I retitle the section Aluminum Windows and Glass Doors. Your system has allowed me to add user choices and links that make it relatively easy to produce a section that incorporates windows only or both windows and doors without confusion. Where a paragraph may address windows only or both windows and doors I have substituted the term “units” for “windows”. We probably have completed about 2 dozen projects with this approach.