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Author Message Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1066 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:24 pm:    Does anyone have experience with a specification for this equipment? We originally specified only the davits and anchors, but now the client wants the masts and booms. We have not been having a lot of success with the Tractel web site, nor has anyone from Tractel returned the architect's call. I confess that I don't know a lot about this equipment beyond a basic understanding, so any help will be appreciated. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 386 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:44 pm:    as I'm sure you know it 's all based on ASME A120.1-2006. I'll contact you offline Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 342 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:47 pm:    Lynn, Contact Gravitec Systems, Inc on Bainbridge Island, WA www.gravitec.com. 1-800-755-8455. Stephen Ting, Engineering Manager Randall Wingfield, President Please tell them Wayne Yancey at Callison referred them. Wayne Rich Gonser AIA CSI CCCA Senior Member Username: gonserarch Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 04:54 pm:    I've had good success with SkyRider. Not so much with Tractel. But they do get the job done. And you're right, I've had response problems as well. T.J. Simons, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tsimons Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, July 12, 2010 - 06:22 pm:    We're finding that the equipment manufacturers are so busy they take far too long to respond-there just aren't that many of them. Have you considered an independent facade access system consultant? They can prepare drawings and specifications the contractor can bid out to various equipment vendors. Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 72 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 07:54 am:    I have always had success with Pro-Bel www.pro-bel.com. They have a very good CSI formated spec and have been responsive to requests for help in the past. One caution on specing equipment beyond the davits and anchors is that if the client contracts out the window washing the masts and booms could be incompatible with the equipment provided by the contractor. Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 73 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 07:59 am:    CORRECTION: www.pro-belgroup.com Dennis C. Elrod, AIA Senior Member Username: delrodtn Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 09:55 am:    Lynn: We too specify Pro-Bel equipment and have had good success, but as Richard states, we usually do not go beyond the davits and anchors. On rare occasion, we have had to specify the masts and booms but it has been several years since we have done that. Dennis C. Elrod, AIA Rich Gonser AIA CSI CCCA Senior Member Username: gonserarch Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 11:24 am:    There is an independent consultant in the southern California area. He has a good rep and is known for international work as well. A lot of the window washing people I've come across know him and had spoken well of him. www.cscaulkins.com Craig Caulkins Companies and contractors I've worked for and with, have used him with less complication than trying to use a manufacturer for competitive bids. Too many of the manufacturers get proprietary with their equipment. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1067 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 12:01 pm:    Thank you all...FYI, the project in in Madison, WI., we originally just had the davits and anchors and the owner decided to add the masts and booms. The designer had been working with Tractel and did finally get a human being to talk with her this morning. I now feel that I understand enough and have information enough to actually write something with intelligence! All y'all are the best and I'm blessed to have such resources. You ride to the rescue, with and without the white hats, and on different vehicles/animals (no horse, Wayne, but a hog?) but you come with the help needed! It'll still be up to the provider to size the equipment, but I'll have enough information for a good bid. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 974 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 02:02 pm:    Lynn: it seems odd that the owner would want to bid out the additional equipment without having a service contract in place. I've found that all of the providers seem to have proprietary equipment and once you get past the anchors, not everybody's stuff fits together. Have they thought this through? (ps, I know the answer to that, I think) Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1068 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 02:29 pm:    Yeah, you do know the answer. I have no idea. I'm just a mushroom spec writer. But I will put that bug in the ear of those who actually get to speak to the Owner. Thanks for the input. T.J. Simons, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tsimons Post Number: 18 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 07:42 pm:    The consultant we used is Olympique Facade Access Consulting (www.facadeaccess.com). We were quite impressed with their work. Not only do their documents allow for competitive bidding, their design and layout was very efficient, which minimized the impact on the structure. They are also qualified to prepare the operating procedures documentation required by OSHA, which the Owner is required to have on file. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 241 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 07:56 pm:    We always require in our specs that the vendor provide the operating procedures documentation (OPOS) that meets OSHA requirements. But about half the time, usually proejcts away from urban centers, no one at the project location, including the owner, contractors and local permit and review officials have never heard of anything like that before. Rich Gonser AIA CSI CCCA Senior Member Username: gonserarch Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 01:06 am:    Get the draft OPOS early enough in the schedule and maybe they can participate in the subcontractor coordination process and keep the roof piping or electrical away from their equipment... They need to have room to move their equipment around and store it. Depending on the height, they may be able to do that from below or may have to store the equipment on the roof. Obviously, each has their own set of implications. Before the roof is cast in concrete...so to speak. Late Post... just got back from the All-Star game!!! Who'd have thunk that the NL would win? Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1069 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 01:01 pm:    Even a broken clock... Oh, yeah, and poor George is dead... Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 01:41 pm:    Lynn, I just did a spec using Pro-Bel Products and they were very helpful Another manufacturer you may want to look at, especially with your situation of adding on to an existing system is: R&R Scaffolding, Ltd. 2 Barrett Avenue Moonachie NJ 07074 www.rrscaffold.com Telephone (212) 517-8837 Telephone (201) 438-3020 Fax (201)438-9585 George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 544 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 03:04 pm:    Lynn - I hope you meant RICH George is dead. Poor George is still writing specs in St. Louis. George A. Everding AIA CSI CCS CCCA Cannon Design - St. Louis, MO Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1070 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 03:09 pm:    I guess I should have put it in quotes and indicated it as a paraphrase from "Oklahoma" - a take-off on "Poor Judd is dead.." But, honestly, George, I think you are the rich one... Harry Peck, CSI, CCS Junior Member Username: harryspec Post Number: 2 Registered: 05-2010 Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 08:52 am:    Try Pro-Bell at www.pro-bellgroup.com