| Author |
Message |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 350
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 11:51 am: |    |
SO,
A contractor friend of mine sent me the following, I read through ASTM C 1193 but it gives no visual quality standards that I can see.
Any ideas or standards I missed?
here is his e-mail:
Can you help me? I am working on the _____ project. I have an QC person inspecting the caulking in the garage within inches of his face and punching out minor tooling marks. Looking from a few feet further away, the workmanship is near flawless. I have dealt with this problem only a couple of times in 25+ years. It always seems to come from someone unfamiliar with sealants and the hands on way they are installed.
Is there a standard for such inspections or must we always be at the mercy of “personal preference?” |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: mark_gilligan
Post Number: 204
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 12:18 pm: | |
The existance of industry standards may be informative but the real question is what did the project specifications require? What do the specifications say about what the inspector will do? |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 1052
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 12:20 pm: | |
Without a standard, or any mention [in the specs] of a visual appearance or quality level, this approach is improper.
If the joint is correct in installation and free from major and quite obvious glitches, then you have to go with it and any failure is a pox on the installer.
We, like code officials, are not free to make stuff up as we go-- AFTER the contract is signed. |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 255
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 12:23 pm: | |
3 feet is the norm in my experience. Contact Wayne Belcher at UniPro, Inc. at 206-248-0077. |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 351
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 12:28 pm: | |
What I'm looking for is any objective standard for VISUAL quality.
they did a mockup, that of course, looked great - and would be (for lack of a published standard) a good thing. there just seems to be no restraint on rejecting - every little tool mark.
I don't know what's in the spec. But I'd ask what could you put in the spec for visual QC - that's OBJECTIVE.
You can of course, add a sentance along the lines of ...all joints will be viewed from 5 or 10 feet away... under X lighting like paint |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: mark_gilligan
Post Number: 205
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 12:39 pm: | |
The mockup would appear to be the standard depending on what the spceifications say the purpose of the mockup was for. If the mockup had minor tool marks then it is hard to see that they could be the cause for rejection. This would be an argument for the contractor not putting his best workers on the mockup.
One strategy would be to take some photos and request an interpretation from the Architect. |
Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 308
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 12:48 pm: | |
I agree that the Approved mock-up becomes the agreed upon standard. The purpose of the mock-up is for the contractor to demonstrate the qualty of work and methods of assembly that they propose to employ on the project. It is NOT supposed to be an opportunity for their best tradesman to make a momument to Ancient Order of Craftsman. But absent a standard mock-up. I generally use 10 feet for asthetic issues. Performance issues are not constrained to any arbitrary distance. There is an ASTM reference for the 10 feet mark, I believe it deals with exterior plaster or other building skin systems...? |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 900
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 01:50 pm: | |
typically, you look for "absence of voids" and "full adhesion to the substrate". However, if someone is going to inspect a surface from 6 inches away, I doubt they will be reasonable about any interpretation of the installation. the ASTM doesn't give a distance for viewing, and it might be useful to put in a number -- say 36" at a 60 degree viewing angle, much like you do with other surfaces. I had one boss who used climbing ropes to visually inspect every sealant joint on a 5 story building, so it could be worse... |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 352
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 08, 2009 - 02:09 pm: | |
Yea, not my spec, I never thought I'd need to go to lengths (literally) to specify field observation of sealant installation. but specs always only scratch the surface of wht happens in the field. |
4specs.com Home Page