Talk on specifications and spec language

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1057 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:30 pm:    My firm has asked me to give a lunchtime talk on an area of expertise. I have decided to talk about specification language and how it can apply to other forms of written commutation such as e-mails, meeting minutes, notes, etc. Basically I will be covering the CSI principles and guidelines in the Project Resource Manual (and old Manual of Practice). In your experience with architects/engineers are there any topics of concern that I should be addressing? Thanks in advance for the help. Helaine K. Robinson CSI CCS CCCA SCIP Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 361 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:34 pm:    Perhaps they will commute your sentence! "other forms of written commutation" Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 250 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:46 pm:    David, I have used the imperative/abbreviated form of writing during my early days with e-mail, only to be told I was being rude. I was advised to use the word "please" more often. Therefore, I do not think it has a place in e-mails. However, drawing notations is a classic example for use of imperative/abbreviated language. Ban the use of the two words, "to be." As in PRECAST TO BE REMOVED. A wide open door to an astute GC for a change order. A war story accompanies this requirement. Wayne Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1046 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 01:49 pm:    It might be well to remind your group that we talk/communicate between ourselves in far different terms than we use when we communicate to the contractors, suppliers, manufacturers and field personnel. And we need to recognize that on a continual basis. Really we are in the "translation" business! David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1058 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:00 pm:    Helaine, Due to my vanity and denial of aging, I am resisting getting reading glasses. I just had LASIK only five years ago to get rid of glasses! So sometimes I miss what I have written. I guess that I just need to break down an buy some glasses before I really get into trouble. ;-) Helaine K. Robinson CSI CCS CCCA SCIP Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 362 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:04 pm:    I am wearing my reading glasses..... Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 923 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:27 pm:    I've worn glasses since the 3rd grade and it doesn't stop me from typos! Seriously, though, I participated in a university class on written communication. The suggestion was made that an initial e-contact be a properly written letter, complete with salutation, closing, and proper grammar - spell-checked and read over before pushing "send". Subsequent communications between the same people can become more casual, but that first contact is better written in a more formal manner. Wayne has identified a huge area of potential improvement; the language on most drawings is so far removed from recommended, it's pathetic - to say nothing about it not being coordinated with the spec language/sections. There's a great place to start. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: robert_w_johnson Post Number: 39 Registered: 03-2009 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 02:30 pm:    I would agee with Wayne - talk about how recommendations for spec language apply just as much to drawing notes. In teaching CDT classes I have always emphasized how the recommendations apply equally to drawing notes. Talk about the benefits of being easier to read and takes less words and therefore less time and room on the drawings. Taking the recommendations for contract document language to other types of communication sounds dangerous - won't always work well - people will not understand why you are using streamlined language and take it wrong as per Wayne's experience. Russell W. Wood, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: woodr5678 Post Number: 141 Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 03:08 pm:    I would you suggest you touch upon the diffence between "will" & "shall", and also discourage the use of "as per". Jerry Tims AIA, CSI Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 90 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 03:19 pm:    David...a few months ago I started sending weekly emails to our folks covering different spec related subjects, just in an effort to get them (young and old alike) to stop being so afraid to open a Project Manual. I called the emails SPECulations. (Isn't that pithy!?!) Anyway, I wouldn't call them works that'll be revered by all throughout eternity, but they were well received "in-house". I'd be happy to send you PDFs of them if you think it'd help your cause any. If so, send me your email and I'll forward them to you. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 251 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 03:52 pm:    David, I did the same as Jerry, but I called mine the NEAT FILE, An Information Exchange. NEAT means NO EXCUSES AFTER THIS. However, I was the only one exchanging information. Go figure. I rehashed the same stuff under the heading WAYNE'S WORLD" in the Trades Winds newsletter of the Honolulu chapter of CSI. I will send you some stuff as well. Wayne Jerry Tims AIA, CSI Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 91 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 03:57 pm:    Wayne....I must admit to you that I stole your NEAT FILE idea. I use it to get info out to the masses when we have a screw-up on a job, or incorporate a new office policy relating to project production. Please accept my sincerest apologies for stealing the name w/out permission! (And please don't sue me!) Helaine K. Robinson CSI CCS CCCA SCIP Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 363 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 04:05 pm:    NEAT file was stolen from an architectural magazine back in the 80s. I used to clip out those pages. Jerry Tims AIA, CSI Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 92 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 04:43 pm:    Ahhh.......the 80s. I still had hair in the 80s. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 252 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 05:42 pm:    Busted. I think it was from Architectural Record. Jerry, thanks for the apology anyway. Great acronym. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 267 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 05:47 pm:    Hi Jerry: Would you mind sending me your pdf's also? I am trying to put together some "lunch and learns". Thanks! Robin@spectraspecs.com Rich Gonser AIA CSI CCCA Senior Member Username: gonserarch Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:26 pm:    Your emails sound great Tim. Please add me to your distribution list. pmstudio at verizon.net Jeffrey Leemhuis, AIA, CSI, CCS, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: jrlbarch Post Number: 27 Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 01:11 pm:    Jerry, Are your SPECulations still available? I am teaching some in-house classes to our staff and this would be useful. Leemhuis@sca-ae.com Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1260 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 01:29 pm:    Jerry, Tim and Wayne - please include me when you send this information out. I had a conversation with one of the PMs in our office this week and I OFFERED to do a session on document language (when will I learn...it's probably too late for me). I'm sure I can use the help. ljavoroski@flad.com. Thanks. Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC, LEED Green Associate Senior Member Username: dale_roberts_csi Post Number: 84 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 02:21 pm:    Hi Jerry, Please include me dalero@cbpmail.net I am putting together information for product reps Thanks (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 02:17 pm:    Hi Jerry, Please include me dalero@cbpmail.net I am putting together information for product reps Thanks G. Wade Bevier, CCS, LEED-AP BD+C, CSI, SCIP, USGBC Senior Member Username: wbevier Post Number: 29 Registered: 07-2004 Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 - 10:51 pm:    Jerry, Please include me as well. gwbevier@earthlink.net Thanks Richard L. Hird (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 09:33 am:    Wayne: I worked for an architectural engineering firm that used the format “to be” in their master specifications for over fifty years. I can attest that not once in all the years we used them was their a change order claim based on that format. Legitimate claims of misinformation must based on inconsistency, not propriety of format. Throwing an isolated “to be” into the specifications is a mistake, but I see no problem in using different sentence formats for drawings and specifications. They are different media. If we were to insist on the Kings English in "texting" it would kill a legitimate media. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 464 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:20 am:    Richard, Once upon a time in the Canadian West, Calgary AB to be exact, I worked on a new structured parking garage project that connected to the recently completed City Hall. Selective demo to make the connection at the ground floor city hall required removal of some interior precast concrete panels. The note said PRECAST TO BE REMOVED. The GC sucessfully argued that "to be" meant in the future by the firm "Others". $25,000 later, the GC removed the precast concrete panels. I see "to be" used mostly in selective demo drawing notations and agree, to my knowledge (since the parking garage project incedent), it has not be a problem. However, this single occurrence did create a NEAT moment for me. I think it is poor notation wording that should be avoided. I prefer "REMOVE PRECAST" to "PRECAST TO BE REMOVED". My original posting was intended to address the use of "to be" in drawing notations where it occurs most often. I did not mention specifications. I will not use "to be" in drawing notations and specs and avoid the use of "shall" or "shall be" in specifications where ever possible and always in drawing notations. Wayne Jim Sliff Senior Member Username: jim_sliff Post Number: 59 Registered: 08-2010 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:27 am:    If any of you would include me on the "cc" list I'd appreciate it. In my coatings/waterproofing seminars Specifications are a prime "target" (I deal with a lot of government agencies...where it's a miracle if they get 1,2 and 3 etc. in order... and large corporations where everything is done "in house") - jim@alohacsi.com Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 494 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:40 am:    Good grief! How can texting be compared with contract documents? Texting will be the death of what remains of our language; if that's the new standard, specifications will be a great source for the "Favorite typos" discussion. Iaw r agrmt, ium us ic, yoyo, mst fin aeap. adbb Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 465 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 10:42 am:    What you saying Willis? Jim Sliff Senior Member Username: jim_sliff Post Number: 60 Registered: 08-2010 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 11:54 am:    Aw, Sheldon, don't worry. It's easy - our kids will teach us the shorthand. Besides, donec volutpat adipiscing risus, in luctus diam sodales id! Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1157 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 06:43 pm:    oddly enough, I wanted to take shorthand in highschool but my mother wouldn't permit it -- said I would be relegated to the secretarial pool if anyone knew I knew it. now there's a whole other "shorthand" out there... and I still don't know it. Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 205 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 11:07 am:    It's interesting how our perceptions have changed over the years. In high school my mom begged me to take typing, but I refused for the same reasons Ann's mom gave, all because I wanted to be an Architect. Now what do I do? I type all day! Go figure! John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 535 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 12:21 pm:    Margaret: I type all day and often late into the night too! I took a typing class in high school. I had to go to summer school to get the class. It's OK for Real Men to type because now it's known as keyboarding. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 279 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 01:25 pm:    I once knew how to type, in the sense of being able to create a document from scratch, neatly laid out and with no "typos". What I do now, with the most frequent command being Ctrl/Z shouldn't be misconstrued as typing. Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 952 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 01:41 pm:    deto (darn!)...dito (darn!)...ditto (whew!) Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1265 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 02:27 pm:    Ron, at least you didn't do what I often do - make the exact same mistake 2 or 3 times. "Darn" is the least of what I mutter to myself when I do that... Typing wasn't offered in my high school, and my brother taught himself using a kit of sorts, which consisted of a keyboard chart on the wall and covers for all the keys. As I did with a lot of stuff my brother learned, I learned after he did. I still couldn't type well because I didn't have enough strength in my pinkies - but the keyboard now doesn't need strength, so I'm doing OK. I did, however, learn language in high school. English and French. French grammar taught me more about English grammar than English did. There are reasons we use the forms of words, tenses, and patterns we do and all the reasons boil down to communication. If we can't make others understand what we want them to understand, the language isn't working. I remember some confusion not too long ago with the meaning of "LOL"; some thought it meant "laugh out loud" and others thought it meant "lots of love". There's quite a difference in meaning there, and I imagine some embarrassing misunderstandings happened. We do need rules to communicate, and everyone has to understand the same rules in the same way. Jim Sliff Senior Member Username: jim_sliff Post Number: 64 Registered: 08-2010 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 02:41 pm:    "...make the exact same mistake 2 or 3 times." If you make a non-correctable mistake, be sure to do it again...and preferably a third time. Then it's not a mistake - it's a "Standard". ;-) (Learned that one in my hobby/avocation as a musician - if you play a "clam" (wrong note) play it again quickly...and if you do it a third time it might be copied by others and become a well-know "hook"!) Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1266 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 02:45 pm:    LOL! David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1200 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 02:58 pm:    Jim, That what they say in music! If you play a bad note, play the bad note two more times and call it "jazz".