Elevator Hoist Beam

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 692 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 02:38 pm:    If there is no structural steel in the building (Concrete & CMU) who is responsible for sizing the elevator hoist beam and where is the beam specified? Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1003 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 02:45 pm:    If you design the building, you, or the structural engineer you [wisely] hire. Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 47 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 04:03 pm:    Specify the hoist beam in 055000 Metal Fabrications. All the elevator manufacturers exclude them from their bid if you specify them in the elevator section and then the steel fabricator says it wasn't in any of his sections. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 337 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 06:13 pm:    Since the hoist beam will need some supporting structure (such as concrete or CMU) which will have to be "engineered" as well. Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 168 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 08:43 pm:    You need to retain a structural engineer to help sort this out. I have at times designed these beams and at other times made them design build after verifying that the supporting members are adequate. In the latter case I have shown where the beam would rest on the structure. In the case of a design build steel beam in a concrete/masonry structure I would design a steel embed that would serve as the interface between the steel beam and the building structure. I have just checked the AISC Code of Standard Practice and cannot see where elevator support beams are excluded from the definition of Structural Steel. Even if it were you can make it clear what specification section applies and leave it to the GC to sort it out. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, June 29, 2009 - 08:57 pm:    You need to coordinate with specific elevator mfr. When I asked each mfr., I was told that Kone typically furnishes hoist beams, Otis requires crane equipment (by others) for lifting equipment into place (thus no hoist beams) and Schindler does NOT provide hoist beams (so obviously someone has to engr). If you have an "open" spec, permitting any of the above (or others), then you've got a problem, since A/E of record can't even know beforehand whose equipment (and weight) will be used, to engr the support for hoist beam...let alone the beam itself. This also applies to reaction loads of guide rails on the bldg structure supports too; each mfr is different. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 10:50 am:    Our 'Unregistered Guest' is somewhat correct. Depending on the type of elevator you are using, you may need a thickened slab instead of a hoist beam or crane. Keep in mind that the only purpose of the beam or slab is to put that cab in place, or take it out again in the future. Depending on whose elevator you end up with, your slab or hoist beam requirements can change. This will affect your structure due to loads as well as spacing and clearances. Once you decide on your basis of design, and apply those delegated design requirements to Section 05 5000 if a hoist beam is required, make sure your elevator spec includes that submittal of anything other than the basis of design include all changes to structure and hoisting assemblies as part of the proposed substitution. It's amazing how quickly a large 'deduct' for switching elevators becomes a huge 'add' once everything is factored in. We had one project where accepting the proposed substitution would have required a complete redesign of our main elevator lobby because of the cascade effect caused by modifying the structure at the elevator shaft. Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 169 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 12:24 pm:    Ken is right. Instead of playing into the games of the manufacturers make the hoist beam the contractor's responsibility. Since this beam is only needed during installation it is part of contractors means and methods. On one project there wasn't room for the hoist beam in the completed structure so it was removed once the cab and the hydraulic cylinder were installed. alan kirkpatrick (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 06:02 pm:    Beam should be sized by the structural engineer. Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 170 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Tuesday, June 30, 2009 - 08:56 pm:    Why Alan? If the beam serves to support part of the perminant structure I will design it to support the loads but if it is just there for errection I typically do not. The structural engineer should make it clear what he has designed, check the structure to have confidence that it will support the load, and indicate his assumption as to how the loads will be applied to the structure. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1064 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2009 - 08:40 am:    We specify all sorts of things using delegated design, where the contractor is responsible for engineering components. A hoist beam could be one. On the other hand, they're almost always shown on structural drawings in this market. I find this fact curious because California typically has more on the structural drawings than we do, and here's an example where it's the other way around.