inside-out curtain wall

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Author Message Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 874 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 03:39 pm:    Got your attention? The situation is that we will be power washing an area with curtain wall as part of the exterior wall. All the specs mention "no water penetration" from the outside to the inside. But how about from the inside to the outside? I really don't want water going through - period. Is there something I can say, or a design detail we can include, or do we need to consult with the manufacturer to see how this requirement gets handled? Any ideas? Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 988 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 04:05 pm:    Just say, in a Bulletin or Modification to your spec what you just said-- i.e., NO water "in to out" or "out to in"! Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 43 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 11:25 am:    We just specify as "No evidence of water penetration through fixed glazing and framing areas........" without conditioning which direction. I think this would be a better statement. Basically "NO LEAKS" plain and simple. D. Marshall Fryer, CSI, Assoc. AIA Senior Member Username: dmfryer Post Number: 70 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 11:50 am:    I disagree with Richard. Since the typical building condition is no leaks "out to in" only, if you also want no leaks "in to out" you need to state this in the design documents. Otherwise, you are just asking for a dispute with your contractor. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 205 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 12:56 pm:    I thought maybe I am just slow to catch on, but since no one else has asked or answered this - what are you planning to do, power-wash from the inside???! In case it helps, you might need to be aware that curtain wall systems often have internal drainage channels that are designed to direct water to the exterior. Might be worth talking with a manufacturer's technical department about this if you are expecting a source of moisture from the other direction - but I'm still confused as to how the scenario of water going from inside to the outside comes into play, based on the situation you describe in the second sentence. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 876 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 02:33 pm:    Actually, yes, we will be power washing from the inside! It's a food science type of area that will be power and chemically washed. Hence, I don't want the chemicals going outside, either. I've advised working with the manufacturer, and believe the designers are doing that. I want to be sure that my spec is a CYA spec. Tony Wolf, AIA, CCS, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: tony_wolf Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2007 Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 03:59 pm:    I assume you've addressed what's going on chemically. With frequent washing, the soap/chemicals may be equally damaging to curtainwall materials, or more so. If this is a ground floor space without basement below, I'm not sure what are the concerns of water penetrating the curtainwall or through it. If there's freezing temperatures, I'd be concerned. Maybe unsightly stains on the exterior. Without knowing the details, my first thought is that if the glass is sealed, the framing's inherent drainage should handle what may be a small amount of penetrating water. But more specifics about the pressure and volume and angle of the water may be requested by the manufacturer. Interesting conditions, though. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 877 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2009 - 04:13 pm:    We're working on the finish for the aluminum. The chemicals aren't too caustic. The floor and walls will be an epoxy system. It is ground floor. And probably not much in the way of freezing. We're not completely sure about the pressure, et al., because we were first told it was 150 psi, but now it seems more "garden hose" variety. And it's only "warm", not hot. The situation does get curiousier and curiousier, though. Oh, the joys of spec writing! Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 989 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 06:38 am:    But you love it, Lynn! And look-- things are going "downward" toward the better and more easily achieved-- think of them going the other way at this point! That would be tough[er]! Your technique has worked yet again! Randall A Chapple, AIA, SE, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: rachapple Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 11:30 am:    AS a side note, you said that you are using epoxy on grade. Just verify that there are no moisture drive issues that could become a problem for the epoxy floor. This could become a bigger issue than the curtain wall. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 884 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 11:37 am:    Thanks for the reminder, Randy; I'm pretty sure we've got that covered with the recommended testing by the manufacturer of the epoxy coating; but I will verify the underslab vapor retarder.