| Author |
Message |
Dale Hurttgam, NCARB, AIA,LEED AP, CSI
Senior Member
Username: dwhurttgam
Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 05:50 pm: |    |
Within the last year we updated our paint spec to have products that at the minimum meet LEED certification requirements for VOC's. Also have limited to 4 manufactures - national brands PPG, SW, Moore and Glidden/ICC. We recently had a LEED project in San Diego, CA. and the spec was updated to meet requirements there. At the same time I received product info from some of the manufacturers to meet SCAQMD regulations which some had mistakenly thought were applicable to San Diego and from what I understand are probably the most stingent jurisdiction requirements nationally.
Subsequently we had a health care project where the paint contractor submitted a "Zero VOC" paint for one of our interior paint projects. Upon investigation, it appeared to have equal or greater performance qualities as the low VOC product that we had specified for the same manufacturer. Our "health care studio" likes the idea of the "zero voc" paints, and I would ideally like to maintain one paint spec master for all of our project types if possible. One of the companies that has supplied info to me, indicates that they feel we could modify our spec to "no VOC" paint products without sacrificing quality or cost implications. There is also another national coatings manufacturer who is just getting into the commercial paint field, but plans to intensivly pursue this market. They recently called on us. They do not have a field of "no VOC" paints, but they feel that the benefits and environmental air quality performance of "no Voc" paints vs. "low VOC" paints can be misleading.
At any rate - I was going to collectivly review with the manufacturer's that we currently specify to see if they uniformily agree that "No VOC" paints across the board can be specified without quality or cost implications.
Have any of you gone this route or already investigated? Would be interested in your comments. |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1072
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 10:08 am: | |
Dale, Would you be willing to share the information you have gathered on Glidden Professional? Our office master is limited to S-W, Moore, and PPG. Now I have an Owner who will only use "ICI". I've started to revise our master to include Glidden, and I'd love to have other input.
ljavoroski@flad.com if you can see your way to sharing that - and thanks in advance if you can.
Andy, I keep trying to convince the office to base our spec on Safecoat, but so far, limited luck. A couple of the designers have used it, but it's not even close to being a standard. I'll keep trying. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 11:50 am: | |
For a map of regional air quality management districts in California, see http://www.arb.ca.gov/capcoa/dismap.htm. WARNING: Not for faint-hearted specifiers.
While the South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) is the best-known and the one referenced frequently for "LEED compliant" paint, you must refer to the regulatory authority for the project location. The example of San Diego was given above (it's the County of San Diego, Air Pollution Control District). For another example, SCAQMD has jurisdication over all of Orange County and the urban portions of Los Angeles, Riverside and San Bernardino counties. The "High Desert" portion of these counties is not under SCAQMD rules.
It's an interesting idea to come up with a spec with "one size fits all" VOC-compliant paints and coatings but it goes against the idea of choosing products appropriate for a specific project's requirements. Sure, zero-VOC paint can be specified for all projects but when it comes to other properties of the paint (life cycle stuff), zero-VOC may be inappropriate.
For schools, hospitals and other public facilities, zero-VOC is appropriate, in my opinion, because of its low or no odor property ... which is a desirable consequence of zero-VOC paint.
I recently had a situation where my SCAQMD-compliant paint schedule had to be rewritten for a project in the Mid-Atlantic region. The project is supposed to be a clone of an office building concurrently constructed in Anaheim, in the heart of SCAQMD. Yep, it's the old story about, "It's just the same, only different ... " |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 431
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 12:47 pm: | |
I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth in the paint industry when low-VOC products were mandated about 10 years ago. What I have seen is great strides by the major paint companies in developing new chemistries to deal with this. My S-W rep recently dropped off some literature on a low-VOC alkyd.
One of the things to remember is that higher VOCs are permitted for higher gloss products. These tend to be more durable as well. While there are some circumstances where there is a desire for no- or very-low-VOC products, certain surfaces with high contact/touch exposure should be semi-gloss for durability (doors and frames come to mind as well as corridor walls). |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1222
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 02:08 pm: | |
Lynn, ICI Paints is now marketed as Glidden Professional in the U.S. The rep in our area was just in recently to go over that with us. They're still owned by Akzo Nobel, it's just a branding effort. ICI-branded paint will not be sold in the US any longer. |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1073
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 02:42 pm: | |
Thanks, John. I knew that - that's why I put "ICI" in quotes. That's how the Interior Designer stated it, and that came direct from the Owner. We're just hoping that the paint color numbers stayed the same because we have a lot of match existing to do. It seems that many of the ICI products kept their names, so I'm hopeful about the colors. |
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: redseca2
Post Number: 242
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 06:01 pm: | |
People are so familiar with ICI that I have been issuing specifications for a "transition period" that reference "Glidden Professional (ICI/Akzo Nobel)".
From my perspective this latest transition was an improvement. Our local rep of many years for ICI disappeared for a year or so during which corporate heads from Akzo Nobel visited our office. But with the roll out of "Glidden Professional" none other than our old friend was back in the saddle where he belonged. Hi Dave! |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1074
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 06:27 pm: | |
Weird...My ICI rep used to be "Dave" also - doubt it's the same Dave, though. That would be one huge territory - Wisconsin to California... |
Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: rlmat
Post Number: 389
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 07:42 pm: | |
I actually dropped "ICI' from my master spec about 2-1/2 years ago, right around the time Akzo Nobel bought them and all of my reps went somewhere else and I was never contacted by anyone from ICI.
I use Dunn-Edwards now as my basis-of-design for paint types and include, S-W, PPG, Frazee, and Vista
One of my former reps with ICI was Dave Major who is now with Dunn-Edwards here in CA
Since most of our work here falls within SCAQMD and both LEED and CHPS reference their VOC requirements, I keep SCAQMD, along with CARB (California Air Resources Board) in all of my paint specs
That way I know I will be in compliance wherever my projects are in CA |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 411
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2011 - 05:04 pm: | |
Terry Decker at terry.decker@gliddenprofessional.com |
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2011 - 05:13 pm: | |
Thanks - I found the email information I had received from Dale and it's exactly what I need. But I'll make sure to remember Terry, too. (You're quick...I deleted that post almost immediately as soon as my computer found Dale's email) |
Justatim
Senior Member
Username: justatim
Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2010
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 09:05 am: | |
Here's one of very few challenges to "greenwashing" claims by manufacturers. Naturally, it began by one manufacturer challenging another. The consumer has too few resources to verify claims, but I know, as specifiers, we always try to see the actual numbers.
"BBB Slaps Sherwin-Williams’ VOC Claim"
PaintSquare News
Wednesday, January 19, 2011
http://www.paintsquare.com/news/article_news.cfm?id=4957&nl_versionid=758&trackid=25634815 |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 1106
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 08:11 pm: | |
back to the original question: try out the 0 VOC paints and see how they hold up. I had a project manager insist on using this type of product and it dusted off on people's clothing so much that the wall was repainted in 6 months. Most manufacturers you talk to will tell you that part of what holds the paint together is the thing that makes VOCs.
I won't specify them, and I don't know a coating supplier who (honestly) recommends them. |
Jim Sliff
Senior Member
Username: jim_sliff
Post Number: 22
Registered: 08-2010
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2011 - 09:24 pm: | |
Anne, coatings/waterproofing are my "niche" and I won't touch Zero-VOC "paint" (as it's normally described - as opposed to industrial coatings, where zero-VOC products are very common and many are outstanding.). In my "dirt-paint" example in another thread I used water, but also glue and soap - both of which likely have some small amounts of VOC's.
Many think it's the "vehicle" that's the VOC-component (the 3 main "parts"...other than a can to hold 'em - are vehicle, resin and pigment), but most resins have VOC's. The VOC's in the resins and additives are what have always "counted", and changes proposed here (in the LA area) will add the pigment VOC's as well.
But I simply have not seen a zero-VOC "paint" that binds the pigments well, and as you noted - then the pigment rubs off. I don't call that a failure - it's a defect.
When I see test results I can live with and actually TOUCH the stuff myself I'll cautiously make Spec revisions. But not yet. |
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