Stained Glass Specifications

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Author Message Anonymous   Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 10:29 am:    Any recommendations for specifying interior stained glass? I've never specified interior stained glass before. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 77 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 10:36 am:    This sounds like a candidate for a Cash Allowance. Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 878 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 11:42 am:    I would agree with Wayne, because even if your office does the design work, it would be a nightmare to detail and then specify-- the shapes, size, colors,framing, installation, etc.............. With an allowance you could get a basic "design/build' scenario, where the artisan does both the design [perhaps to a general concept from your designer] and also executes the work, for the given price. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 78 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 12:03 pm:    We or I specifically would categorize this as "ART GLASS" and make reference in Division 08 Section "Glazing" or "Art Glass" to the Division 01 Section "Allowances." The description of the allowance would include reference to a drawing or drawings showing the design concept while the glazing section could include materials in Part 2 such as lead, solder, range of glass colors, etc. As Ralph states, this is a delegated design/build scenario with means/methods/materials left up to the qualified artisan. Consult with some stained glass artists in your area for a budget price based in an image of whatever complexity to plug into your allowances section. GC will schedule when it is required for install. Jerry Tims Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 23 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 05:53 pm:    I agree with Wayne and Ralph. We always provide an allowance amount, and get a stained glass artisan involved to do the actual design, fabrication and installation, or in renovations projects, to do the removal, restoration, and reinstallation. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 406 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 01:47 pm:    I don't think having an allowance will ensure that the issues of quality are acceptably met. On a couple of public projects, where artistic ironwork was involved, qualifications of the artist were specified plus the identification of an acceptable artist (the one with whom the architect had worked for the project design). This meant that another artist of equal experience and capability could be engaged, if determined to be acceptable by the owner and the architect. It's a consideration that's necessary for public construction. Next, a model was produced and identified in the specifications as the design to be produced full-size. Materials and finishes were specified as well. There was no need for an allowance. In regards to stained glass, another approach would be to have the owner engage the stained glass artist a under separate contract and include in the building contract that the stained glass assembly (assemblies) would be delivered to the Contractor or shall be picked up the Contractor and installed in the framing provided by the Contractor. The specifications for the building would describe the Contractor's responsibilities (construction management, joint sealing, providing lifts and temporary facilities, and clean-up) and the Owner's (artist's) responsibilities. Installation in the framing could also be specified to be by the artist. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 283 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 05:08 pm:    Mr. Regener brings up a good point. The question behind the question is whether this is a public or private project. I would think allowances would work well on private jobs such as churches, especially where the stained glass will be a gift/memorial from a private donor. On public work, some public arts requirements can be handled on the side without the contractor being too involved. I was directed, however, to write a specification to competitively bid moving a $250K painting (a large one that was being moved because an exterior wall was being demolished) that was on loan from a local museum to the client. I suggested an allowance, but was informed that this was against policy. After I took the better part of a week researching and crafting what I thought was a pretty good specification for public competitive bidding, the powers that be decided an allowance would be a better way to handle it after all. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 807 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 07:26 pm:    I've had the same experience as Mr. Jordan with art (in this case, a terrazzo floor) on public projects. The owner interviewed and selected an artist, the money came out of the 1% for Art fund, but the entire contract was then assigned to the General Contractor for coordination and administration. I would do the same thing with stained glass,if possible. Stained glass work is not a commodity item and each artist has their own style of working and installation. the Owner will need to make that selection before the project gets too far along. Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 06:38 pm:    The project type is a large public project. The design of the stained glass will match the architectural aesthetic. I will have to verify with our designer if he will develop a scheme for the stained glass or if he will want the stained glass craftsman to match our architectural intent. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 285 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 08:38 pm:    What does or does not match the architectural aesthetic if very, very subjective. Unless your designer is very familiar with current trends in this type of work and the "technology" of the materials and process, this is best left to a skilled artisan. While those of us who are architects like to think we can design anything (which is why God likes to play architect on her day off), we are somtimes woefully inadequate. Preconceived notions and inadequate familiarity with the media can result in a mediocre design. If the work is being funded out of an "art fund", there may exist a commission or committee which has control over the work and who does it. While this can result in somewhat banal stuff, the results can be also be very interesting and occasionially spectacular. In the first instance, you should find out if the stained glass pieces will qualify as "public art," whether they will be funded out of some "set aside" (such as the 1 percent to which Ms. Whitacre refered), how this amount is funded (is it part of the project budget or from another fund), and who is in charge of the process. In some cases, this may actually help your construction budget with the stained glass moved from construction funding to art funding. This may give you the more definitive answers you are looking for. Kenneth C. Crocco Senior Member Username: kcrocco Post Number: 140 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 10:43 am:    Go to the Stained Glass Association of America; they have "Standards and Guidelines for the Preservation of Historic Stained Glass. Excellent group and you can find artisans who can do the work. Even if you don't end up specifying the work directly, you will learn a lot about the process. Anonymous   Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 11:15 am:    The money for the stained glass is not set aside in a seperate art fund. We (architects) are recommending that the stained glass application be utilized on the project.