what is the silliest question you've ...

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Author Message Anonymous   Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 06:07 pm:    I just have to vent, but since I don't want to embarrass either my office or yours, let's keep this anonymous. I had an associate (!) in my firm ask me why she couldn't seem to find a copy of the Barcelona building code published in English anywhere. (I responded that I doubted anyone could find a Spanish-language version of the Chicago building code, but she didn't get the comparison) Yale-educated architect, by the way.... Anonymous   Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 06:25 pm:    Someone in a former office once directed a drafter to detail a 4-inch stainless stud wall. He did not understand the difference between metal studs and stainless steel studs. Anonymous   Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 06:47 pm:    Today, I had someone ask, "What is the thickness of paint?" Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 277 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 09:43 pm:    This is not a question, but it was the silliest answer I have received to my question: "Because the salesman said so!" David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 283 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 09:19 am:    From a couple of years ago (from someone working on a project in coastal Louisianna): "Have you spec'ed anything on hurricane-resistant glazing before? We may need to add that to the project. Would we just make the windows hurricane resistant that face the direction of the wind or would all the windows need to be hurricane resistant?" Stephan Reppert CSI, CCS, CCCA, assoc. AIA Senior Member Username: steprepp Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 09:21 am:    Just the exterior ones Anonymous   Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 09:42 am:    I had a 40 year old graduate architect once ask me how do work the Sweet's Catalogs. Anonymous   Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 09:49 am:    When I was doing design work...I had a principal of the firm ask me "why can't we put the drinking fountain in the mens room?" Jerry Tims Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 21 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Friday, June 27, 2008 - 06:43 pm:    Several years ago, a partner in our firm asked me why we couldn't prepare "standard" specifications for various project types that we could use over and over, without editing, so they wouldn't have to budget so much money for spec preparation. My reply? If we did that, we'd have to call them "Generalizations" instead of "Specifications". He got my drift and has never mentioned it again. Anonymous   Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 11:29 am:    Jerry, For the same reason one can't prepare "standard" drawings...that can be used over and over...without editing...so they don't have to budget so much for design! John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 405 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 12:05 pm:    I had the principal of a firm respond to my question about the finish on aluminum storefront framing by saying, "We want a Kynar anodized finish." I explained that there is a fundamental difference between the painted finish based on a fluorpolmer resin ("Kynar") and an anodic metallic finish. His response was, "I don't keep up with new technologies." He's about 40 years old. Anonymous   Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 08:27 am:    To Anon #1, Remember JFK's quote when he received his honorary degree from Yale... "I now have the best of both worlds...a Harvard education and a Yale degree." Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 793 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 01:01 pm:    Jerry: and specs are budgeted at what? 3% of the design budget? doesn't that just about buy morning coffee for the team meetings? David J. Wyatt, CSI, CCS, CCCA (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, June 30, 2008 - 01:34 pm:    A number of times over the years, I have had clients ask if I can specify "90-mile per hour construction" for roof assemblies. My reply is, "Do you really want it that fast?" Jerry Tims Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 22 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 08:51 am:    Anne....I do believe you've hit the nail on the head! Coffee is free at our office.....so they expect the specs to be free as well! NOW it all makes sense! George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 436 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 09:55 am:    A contractor suggested substituting two 24" diameter storm sewers for the 48" diameter sewer shown on the site plan. Do the math: 24+24=48. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 64 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 01:27 pm:    Not a silly question but a silly requirement. “Paint all electrical, mechanical and utility closets with 2 coats sprayed white paint regardless of the Interior Designer directive per drawing Finish Schedule.” Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 794 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 03:09 pm:    I love that! the idea that we could have a requirement in the specs that says "no matter what you see on the drawings, do it this way...." (actually my boss has told me to do that in a few cases -- "put something in the specs to cover this, so no matter what is on the drawings....") Anonymous   Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 03:29 pm:    Ms. Whitacre-- is that then "complementary", supplementary" or "substractive"? Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 65 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 03:52 pm:    "Subversive." Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 66 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2008 - 04:21 pm:    Drinking Fountains in Men's Restrooms. Can be done but must have the rim of the sink minimum 60" above finished floor. The men's restroom in the BeerStube at the Whitefish ski area in Montana has the lav (singular) mounted at least 48" AFF. Bradley foot activated hand wash sinks are also at risk in both men's and women's washrooms if the venue is on a university campus, during frosh week, during a concert with beer vendors. Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 656 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2008 - 12:43 pm:    After stating in an email to the civil engineer on a project that they are not to include the geotechnical report as a contract document (they seem to always do that), this is what I got in return, just a few moments ago, regarding their specifications: "I still need to work thru how the pavement sections will be addressed since the soils report is not considered a contract document, who is ultimately responsible for the pavement section design?" And people complain that architects are trying to limit their responsibility by passing some of the work onto others. Dale Hurttgam, NCARB, AIA,LEED AP, CSI Senior Member Username: dwhurttgam Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 05:28 pm:    This was not a question - but it was quite silly. I once worked for a corporate client who did not want to spend money on field checking. Instead, they wanted the A/E firms to rely on the existing drawings that they had available for each site location and to use their standard general notes. One of their corporate standard general notes read as follows: "The contractor is responsible to provide everything that is indicated on the drawings including items that are shown as existing that are not there". They truly expected that if a door, toilet room or "whatever" was shown as existing, and it was not actually there that the contractor had to provide it. They even admonished me for field checking a project that was within close driving range. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 803 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 06:02 pm:    oh... this just came through on some shop drawings: "Architect's approval of shop drawings shall be construed to mean acceptance of all deviations shown." our response: "no, it doesn't. see Division 1". Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, July 21, 2008 - 06:24 pm:    My first post architecture education home was an apartment in San Francisco I shared with an also just graduated architecture major from Yale. As I was the graduate from U of Oregon, which seemed to imply real hands-on experience, I was put in charge of building out our photo darkroom in the attic. Picking a board off the floor one day he asked me what this was, and when I explained, he said with a note of wonder in his voice, "So THAT'S a 2 by 4!" (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 03:00 pm:    I was just asked from an Architect, if architectural precast, acid etch finish looked like marble. ??? Am I missing a new finish from PCI? Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 79 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:14 pm:    New spelling: TOILET /REST RM. 'ABBRIBIATION' LEGEND. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 114 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:49 pm:    We were designing a hospital in a large California city. We had a meeting with a city contract specialist to go over contract requirements. Everything needed to be competively bid. Two of their chief concerns: 1. Provide an alternate source to code compliance than the California Building Code. 2. Provide and alternate source to issue permits than OSHPD (Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development). George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 442 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:52 pm:    "There are no silly questions, there are only silly people." (or something like that) Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 266 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:56 pm:    [quote] 1. Provide an alternate source to code compliance than the California Building Code. 2. Provide and alternate source to issue permits than OSHPD (Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development).[/quote] Wow, that's fantastic. Let us know if you find any viable alternatives. We could make a fortune marketing it! Melissa J. Aguiar, CSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: melissaaguiar Post Number: 104 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:57 pm:    Mr. Bruneel, I believe if I had heard those statements I would have told them that I was out of the project and to find another Architect! Did the project end well? It did not sound like it started off that way for sure! Melissa "looking for an alternate source to my reality- a surreality if you will" Aguiar Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 879 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 01:16 pm:    Arnold must be looking for that contract person [to "terminate"????} Not a question but latest "instruction"-- "This Change Transmittal goes out this afternoon, but date it, May 16th" Huh?????????????? Client request! Wonder who's in trouble? Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 04:26 pm:    Similar to Mr. Beard's: When told that certain information belongs in the specs and not in the drawings, the project architect's response was "The Contractor told us to put it on the drawings." Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 115 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 04:59 pm:    To all concerned: The project where the city bureaucrat wanted us to find an alternate code for competitive compliance is going fine. I would post a link to construction cams but lets keep this project "anonymous". David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 288 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 06:17 am:    Another one of my favorites, from several years ago: "I need a spec for a ballasted roof system. The aggregates on the roof will be provided by a landscape contractor and not the roof contractor. Can you provide me with this? Don't we have one that is already formatted from a previous job?" I sent back a few silly questions of my own: -- What membrane material? -- What is the basis of design product / system? -- Manufacturer? -- Reinforced membrane or unreinforced? -- Overall roof assembly? -- What is exterior fire-test exposure class? -- Type of insulation? -- Thickness / R-value of insulation? -- Type of deck and substrate? -- What is roof slope? -- Is insulation uniform thickness or tapered? -- Wind uplift resistance requirements? -- Who is Owner's insurance carrier? -- Does overall system have to comply with FM Global or UL, or other? -- Perimeter condition - parapet or roof edge/facia? -- Internal drains or scuppers or gutters? -- Has structural engineer verified in writing that roof structure (originally designed for modified bit roof) can carry the extra weight of the ballast? -- Will the manufacturer warrant the roofing system if someone else's ballast is used? -- Will the manufacturer warrant the system if someone else other than their approved applicator installs the ballast? -- What is the desired warranty duration? Never heard from him again. Stephan Reppert CSI, CCS, CCCA, assoc. AIA Senior Member Username: steprepp Post Number: 23 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 06:51 am:    He's still trying to find answers to your questions Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 809 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 05:30 pm:    I got a request today for a "3-hour rated dock leveler" Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 293 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2008 - 05:34 pm:    After almost 40 years in the business, the last 12 as a spec writer, it seems to me that we are working with "dumb & dumber" It's really scary. Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 08:44 am:    Not a question, but showing silliness is everywhere; Latest News-In front of 5 lawyers, a registered/licensed architect, state certified code inspector, photographer, and statement recorder...the local inspector insisted as per IRC 1102.1.10...all vertical joints between immediately adjacent and nailed together studs, must be caulked to prevent air movement. All these joints are completely covered by OSB/Tyvek on the outside and drywall/low perm primer on the inside. In most cases, the thinnest feeler gauge could not be forced between the studs. The joints where the ends of the studs meet the plates was not addressed. There was no mention of the joint between the 2x6 top plates or bottom plate/floor joint, either. The local inspector pointed to the pairs of studs holding up headers over doors and windows and corners where multiple studs are nailed together. Individual studs, 16" oc were not mentioned as air movement sources. Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 10:31 am:    There is a TV show that might be apropos in the situation. It's called "Just Shoot Me." David J. Wyatt Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_csi_ccs_ccca Post Number: 118 Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 07:16 am:    To Dumb and Dumber, we should add Dumbest: About six years ago, a building official in Ohio required that that a stone statue for a lobby to be fire rated. He wanted the statue to be labeled. After a couple of months, he relented and approval of the design was granted. Anonymous   Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 03:44 am:    I went on Wikipedia and looked up Shinola. The result included an image of a can of Shinola (shoe polish). I have copied the image and am waiting for an appropriate occasion to use it in an attempt to explain which-is-which to someone who doesn't know the difference. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 831 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 01:12 pm:    this isn't a spec question but.... I'm located in Los Angeles and was looking up some information about a leak detection system. one of the sources included a newsletter written by a consultant in Massachusetts, a reference to his web site and contact information, so I called him, introduced myself on the phone, and asked him a couple of questions. his comment: "you're located way out (emphasis on this) in Los Angeles? How did you get a copy of my newsletter?" my response: "Even way out in Los Angeles, we have the internet. I found it there." ..... John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 977 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 01:16 pm:    Anne, Maybe he meant "way out" as is "groovy, man." Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 809 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 02:35 pm:    In that case, John, it would have been "...located in way out Los Angeles..." Anne, I hope he understood you even with your tongue in your cheek Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 05:03 pm:    I'm flying from Boston to Los Angeles on Thursday. Good thing I have an up-to-date passport. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 304 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 05:50 pm:    Now wait a minute Lisa - California isn't another country yet! Although there are those who would like it to be. (I'm not one of them - I'm actually a transplant from Connecticut and I still have relatives on the East Coast, including Massachussetts) John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 416 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 11:45 am:    See Wikipedia, "Economy of California." Depending upon the source, if California was ranked as a separate country it would be economically between the 7th and 10th largest in the world. Kaliphonia (guvenator's pronounciation): quirky, kooky, too fast-paced, getting too crowded, overly materialistic, culturally and socially diverse and very busy for commercial and institutional architects and engineers. It's the future, for better or worse. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 814 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 11:53 am:    "Tip the world on its side and everything loose will land in Los Angeles" Frank Lloyd Wright Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 146 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 12:14 pm:    Lynn, There must be a version for every west coast city. The one I grew up with is this; "If the United States was a dining table and you picked up one end, everything loose would end up in San Francisco" - Frank Lloyd Wright Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 815 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 12:20 pm:    Hmmm, I actually looked that one up, because I remembered it as the "southwest". Methinks Mr. Wright was rather loquacious. Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 703 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 12:29 pm:    I think that is how Mr. Regener ended up there. (I couldn't resist, John) ;-) Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 834 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 01:37 pm:    I had one colleague who said "if you look at a map, Seattle is WAY OUT in left field, and I like it that way." Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 02:32 pm:    What you are about to read is for real. It is an excerpt from Hermes of Paris requirements for what they call ONE-SITE MEASUREMENT. I quote: "You might think that with all the regulations and specifications we have, provided one meter measured in Paris will be the same length as one meter measured in Valencia, Boston or Munich. But unfortunately this is not the case. In other words "one meter" at one site will not necessarily equal "one meter" at another. Or put another way: if five different workers measure the same area of a single site, you will get five different lengths. One very good way to demonstrate to your contractors the kind of precision we require is to ask their foreman to bring a yardstick measure to the first meeting. Then put the zero end of all yardsticks adjacent to each other. You'll be amused when you see the worker's amazement of what happens at the other end of the yardstick; there is a discrepancy in the gap at the ends of the yardsticks. So imagaine how inaccurate a measurement that extends over 25 or more meters could be. [The fun part begins here; my words]. So you need to designate one person to be in charge of all the main measurements at the site. This person should be the surveyor who surveyed the site before construction began. The contrcctor will like the idea of having a measurement coordinator and will agree to share the costs of the surveyor by the various subcontractors according to the proportion of the overall work each subcontractor is responsible for. This should be stipulated in the contract. The surveyor has to attach all axis lines and important points secured on the site. Also the planned finished level has to be marked carefully. This procedure is especially important when you have more than one floor/level connected by a lift/elevator or stairs. [Now for the best part] All contractors are required to produce precise fit and finish devoid of any tolerances of any kind. Nor should the proposal/bid and contracts allow for any tolerances of any kind either. If any tolerances are allowed for in the contract, the contractor will try to claim that he was just applying industry-standard tolerances. The latter differ from those stipulated in local regulations, but they are completely unaccpetable in a Hermes boutique." Whew! Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 836 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 06:30 pm:    yardstick? they don't have lasers in France? Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 294 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 07:46 pm:    Sure there will be a discrepancy if you try to measure a meter with a yardstick--along the lines of 3.37 inches. Even if they don't have lasers in France--do they have metersticks? Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 705 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 01:20 pm:    For a project I'm currently working on, I asked my client (the architect) to obtain from the structural engineer the movement capability for a proposed expansion joint that was to have a fire-resistance rating of 2 hours. His response? (Mark Gilligan, you'll like this) "I'm going to stick with my original recommendation for a 1" structural gap. This means that we need to allow for +/-1" movement in each direction." Anybody know where I can find a fire-resistive joint assembly that has 200% movement capability? Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 274 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 01:33 pm:    Sure, do it all the time: http://www.c-sgroup.com/architect/expansion-joint-covers Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 706 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 02:46 pm:    Nathan, C-S provides a lot of covers, but they do not provide any with 200% movement capability. And, since it's a fire-resistance-rated floor, if the the gap is 1 inch and the movement is +/- 1 inch, then the fire barrier material in the joint would have to be capable of being compressed to nothing--zero inches. A physical impossiblity. The most you can ask for (and UL lists) is 100% movement capability (50% compression and 50% extension), which means for a 1-inch gap, the movement would be +/- 1/2 inch, or 1 inch overall. Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 275 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 02:50 pm:    Yes, I see your point and agree. in my defence, I am under the influence of Nightquil currently :-) Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 707 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 02:55 pm:    Then what are you doing posting on discussion forums?--go to bed and get some rest. :-) Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 04:13 pm:    First I believe the term "structural gap" is potentially misleading. My practice is to state the amount of movement needed and let the Architect select the cover with input from the manufacturer. The joint hardware always takes up some space but typically we do much better than 50%. You should also verify how much movement parallel to the joint needs to be accommodated. Out here in California 1" of movement is very minor. At a 5th story bridge between buildings I designed a system to accommodate 24" in each direction. Talk to the manufacturers rep regarding fire ratings. One approach is to drape a flexible assembly underneath the floor between the two sides. This may make a 2 hour rating possible. If you can get the filler out of the joint then you can do much better than 50% movement. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 305 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, October 17, 2008 - 07:05 pm:    We are in the process of designing a 24 inch joint on one of our projects here in CA This is a huge gap in my estimation. We are working with C/S as well. As for Nathan - I agree with Ron. The NyQuil has apparent affected his spelling as well.