| Author |
Message |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 313
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 01:51 pm: |    |
I need to build language for my interiors folks when pointing at things on the drawings. at flooring transitions I have looked at Masterspec and Speclink flooring sections and tile sections and have come up with the following:
Edge strips =
Resilient edge strips (carpet and resilient flooring pieces from johnsonite etc.)
Metal edge strips (tile and carpet etc from Schluter for example)
Trim = field material being used as a trim as in tile and wood
Thresholds = large flat things various materials
Do you-all agree? |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 63
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:14 pm: | |
Reducer Strips: Terminations of resilient tile or sheet flooring to concrete floors. Usually under the door. Johnsonite uses "REDUCERS." Roppe also calls then "EDGE GUARDS", "ADAPTORS" and "TRANSITIONS".
Transition Strips: Carpet to resilient. Burke calls them "JOINING MOLDINGS"; Johnsonite calls them 'TRANSITIONS", "ADAPTORS", "T-MOLDINGS."
I agree with metal edge strips for Schluter type products.
Wood Flooring: I would use "TRANSITIONS" or "REDUCERS" depending on what adjacent flooring I was transitioning or reducing to. If using laminate flooring they are typically T-Moldings.
Thresholds = large flat things various materials.
For drawings purposes (Detail group naming) I favor FINISH FLOOR SEPARATIONS. I group them all together in one detail module named FINISH FLOOR SEPARATIONS and label them individually as A, B, C, D, etc. |
Dale Roberts CSI, CDT
Senior Member
Username: dale_roberts_csi
Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 02:16 pm: | |
Trim: Units of various shapes consisting of such items as bases, caps, corners, mouldings, angles. Etc., necessary or desirable to make a complete installation and to achieve sanitary purpose.
Threshold: raised member at the floor within the door jamb Its purpose is to provide a divider between dissimilar flooring materials. |
Bob Johnson (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 06:54 pm: | |
Can't resist making a general comment.
Wouldn't it have been neat if we had been working on a consensus standard for common terminology between drawings and specs during the last 10 years or so. I bet it would be pretty complete by now and the major master spec providers including the feds would be well on their way on revising their specs to conform to the standard as they said they would back in 1999.
We would have the major players in the industry using the same terminology for the same items - when we had these sort of questions, we would have a standard to go to get the answer - what a concept!
If you are interested in the historical background of the above statements, see the article titled "The Next Step" in the August, 1999 edition of The Construction Specifier. |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 785
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:38 pm: | |
Bob -- I was told that since CSI publishes the National CAD standard terminology list that this is "in place". Have you looked at the National CAD standard terminology list? Has ANYONE ever used "ARF" to designate Architectural Finish? That one is in there.... |
Bob Johnson (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 09:59 pm: | |
Anne
The Terms and Abbreviations list in the NCS list is a start, but only a start. I believe it has several short comings:
* It is not detailed enough and contains only basic terms on the architectural side. Seems more detailed on the engineering side. Of Marc's terms, I think only threshold is in that list.
* It concentrates more on abbreviations than on terminology.
* It would benefit with definitions to go with the terms.
* It was not created by a consensus group - accomplished within the NCS group to my knowledge. Such a list needs to be formulated with good representation on both the drawing and specification side.
* I believe all the major master specification providers (commerical and government) need to be a part of process so that they "buy-in" and agree to conform to the standard - again to my knowledge they were not involved in the creation of the NCS list. Their adoption of such a standard would give it an immediated large impact and establish its credability.
That said, the NCS list is still a very good starting point. What is needed is to compare that list to the terms used in the available master specifications as well as the lists that have been created by various firms that have taken on the task to create such a list. Then put proposed lists out for public review and comment to let all interested parties contribute to the process.
It was an interesting experience as we created such a list at RTKL while I was there. We did in conjunction with the creation of a library of reference details. We found that we did considerable changes to the RTKL master specification terminology and arrangement of titles to better work with good drawing terminology. For example, we often added a higher level generic title in the specifications followed by the longer more detailed technical titles at the next lower level. Allowed the drawings to use the simple generic title and the specifications to select the more detailed technical choices available to fulfill the function. To do a good job at it, you have to be thinking in both worlds at the same time - that means you have to have people involved who have a good understanding of one or both worlds and who are willing to compromise for the common good - make decisions that are the best for both worlds.
As an aside, one could easily create a standard for keynote designators at the same time. That would make keynoting a much easier tool for firms to use if they so chose. |
John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: john_regener
Post Number: 400
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 10:46 am: | |
So, what Section is "mud" specified in? |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 314
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:02 am: | |
Well, the committee weekend is coming in a month and I will bring up some of these very good points. However, at this point I'm trying to attach Masterspec and SpecLink to drawings and in lieu of the list Bob talked about I will have to muddle thru.
I may have to revise my idea about trim. It is of course a very general term but in the (already written) master specification sections on flooring –(I know, I know other sections use trim, but right now let’s stay with flooring) seem to imply like material vs a separate material used for edge work or transitions
I have been using the NCS abbreviations |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 03:10 pm: | |
Having worked with Bob at RTKL, I can tell you that those architects who chose to use our system loved it. Unfortunately, many chose to continue using faulty details and terminology from previous projects. Architects will continue to follow the easy path unless we give them easy tools to use that they can learn and understand (think preschool). A consensus based, universal Keynote List that includes abbreviations and definitions would provide the single document everyone could turn to. Having more than one document kills the concept (think ICC vs NFPA). |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 788
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 04:37 pm: | |
I also knew one project manager who piled the whole team in the conference room, where he had pasted up every sheet in the set, red-marked to death, with the comparable spec section near it. the people on that team ALWAYS checked the specifications terminology after that. |
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