| Author |
Message |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 11:30 pm: |    |
Are there any documented 'standard definitions' for what is considered 25% (or 50% or 75%) completion of drawings and/or specifications? If a client argues that your 25% is not what he/she conceived 25% to be, how would you argue the case? |
Doug Frank FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: doug_frank_ccs
Post Number: 218
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 08:07 am: | |
I am often asked by our clients (and sometimes by my own project managers) to produce a “50% spec”. My answer is nearly always the same; you get three choices.
1) 45 sections complete out of the total 90 sections required for the whole job.
2) The first 2 or 3 pages of every section required for the whole job.
3) Whatever I’ve completed when I’ve used up half of my allotted budget hours.
Folks just don’t seem to understand that most decisions necessary for me to produce a detailed specification haven’t even been made when the Drawings are only 50% complete.
But,, when it comes to client expectations/demands, there is no limit to the different opinions of what various deliverables might be. One client would not accept a DD Spec format, even when shown copious documentation from CSI and others about what constitutes a DD Spec. They demanded a full blown CD level spec at the DD phase,, because that’s what they got from another A/E on a previous project! (upon examination of that previous project DD spec I found it was nearly unedited master sections)
I am unaware of any source that specifically defines required deliverables at any interim phase issue. |
James M. Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CDT, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: jsandoz
Post Number: 37
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:19 am: | |
Doug, I am printing out your response (with attribution) and will fashion it into a shield which I will use to fend off the unrealistic expectations of others.
When I hear "50 percent specs" I think of those funny glasses with only the lower half of the lenses and frame which I now have to wear when I read or write specifications.
I think another clever way of delivering a "50 percent spec" would be to print o_l_ e_e_y _t_e_ l_t_e_ (only every other letter).
Note also that "spec" is only 30 percent of "specification." |
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 833
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:08 am: | |
Might be prudent to define this in the professional services contract [i.e., answer the question before it is aksed!].
Can you reasonably equate outline, guide, design development and full specs to the percentiles?/ |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 270
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 11:50 am: | |
We don't even start writing full-length drafts until the architect's CD drawings are 50-60% complete, for just the reason that Doug said.
If a client insists on a 50% specification submittal, we tell them we will resubmit updated DD outline sections, with drafts for full-length sections such as roofing, waterproofing, sealants, doors, gypsum board, and other areas where firm decisions have been made at that stage of project completion.
Typically the last sections we write are those for finishes, woodwork, and ornamental metal, where the designers keep designing and put off making up their mind until they have to. I have not have a client give me a problem here, ie with these sections being among the last drafted.
The percentage complete for a DD outline specification is different than for drawings. Overall, DD completion is about 35%; for me, DD outline specifications typically are not more than 15% of our fee. |
David J. Wyatt
Senior Member
Username: david_j_wyatt_csi_ccs_ccca
Post Number: 105
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 09:52 am: | |
I have been successful in getting clients to accept detailed preliminary project desciptions at 50% rather than outline specs. Using UniFormat, you can cross-reference elements to spec sections and build a table of contents as an appendix to the PPD.
At 50% CMs I have worked with are more interested in the drawings and lists of spec sections that will be used. They use the section listing to work up cost models.
Once they get used to it, clients find this approach as useful or more useful than outline specs. I don't have anything against outline specs, but most people don't understand how to write them or what to do with them. And, it is hard enough to convince architects to set aside a sufficient portion of their design budget for CD specs, to say nothing of SD and DD phase deliverables. |
John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: john_regener
Post Number: 383
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 01:05 am: | |
I have encountered two situations that greatly impact what "preliminary" specifications mean.
At an AIA convention a couple of years ago, a construction manager stated that the drawings and specifications need to be complete at design development so that "hard" pricing could be done. The pressure for earlier and greater commitment to the project cost is requiring the drawings and specifications at DD to be more like 70% CD's so that the cost guess-timating wizard can make an accurate and complete first-pass "estimate of probable construction cost."
At a Los Angeles CSI Chapter meeting a couple of years ago, the manager of the LA office of the Division of the State Architect (DSA) --- the all-powerful authority for public school construction --- stated that DSA wants to be able to plancheck projects at the end of the Design Development phase. Can you imagine that! The design being completed at the end of Design Development?! Again, I interpret that to mean about 70% complete drawings and specifications.
These are both possible if (1) the design is complete, (2) the design is simple (simplistic?) or truly "just the same as the previous such-and-such project." It is rare that the projects I do have completely defined scope and completed design decisions at the end of DD.
So the pressure is not for PPDs and draft specifications. The expectation --- and I see this becoming more intense under BIM or "Smart Building" --- is for us spek riters to be able to wave our magic wands and create biddable specifications with only a couple of days' effort.
(Don't think about CAD monkeys interacting with the Ronco Spec-O-Matic program that automagically creates speci-fictions. It is a horrifying prospect.) |
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 764
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 01:58 pm: | |
I have been producing "biddable" specifications at the end of DD for about the past twenty years. Generally, it means about a 70% spec, and that means that all the "basic" stuff has to be in the spec -- the standards of quality, the testing requirements and the like. The problem typically is that the special design conditions usually aren't even determined until about 90%, so the contractor has to carry a good contingency to take them into account.
what I've often found is that even though I may have fairly complete specs early on, the estimators are using very crude dollars-per-square foot estimates and are not looking at any of the specific data, even if it is contained in the project manual. The language in the project manual helps only when we get the inevitable cost upgrades during construction. (I remember one time when the estimators for the contractor put in some number -- say $72 a square foot for curtainwall, and the project manager just looked at them and said "you guys -- you've done 5 projects with us, our curtainwalls are always at least $115 a square foot, and you're using these ridiculous numbers to get the project with the Owner". So... my feeling is that while we may be providing more information, the contractor isn't necessarily using it.
there are a lot of things that can nearly complete early on in the project phase: most of the commodity sections don't change that much in their content -- the extent of the work may change quite a bit. |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 47
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 03:28 pm: | |
John,
I use the Popeel Pocket Specs-A-Generator that came bundled with my Pocket Fisherman. No matter which way I cast, my specs are rather fishy.
Wayne |
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