Adhesively attaching metal stud track

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Author Message George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 403 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 12:19 pm:    We have a small renovation job, where the client want to avoid drilling or shooting into the concrete floor slab because of sensitive instrumentation housed on the floor below. Has anyone used or heard of using adhesive to attach metal floor track? These would be simple gypsum board partitions, non-bearing. I'm sure I can find an adhesive to do the trick, but I'd be more comfortable hearing someone say they had tried this and it worked ok. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 12:42 pm:    George, I have done what you describe without issue. I used two rows of double-sided foam gasket tape on the floor, then the floor track. No room for error if adhesive gets hold on the bottom of the track before the track is in it's final position. Requires a little care and attention. Wayne John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 853 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 01:06 pm:    Given that airplanes are put together with adhesive these days, I wouldn't be too concerned. I'd contact one of the manufacturers of adhesive foam tape and see what they recommend. I know that the metal panels of Disney Hall in LA are adhered to the building with 3M's VHB tape, but I don't think it has enough resiliency to make up minor gaps between the floor and track. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 255 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 01:21 pm:    Obviously you want to make sure the slab is clean and not dusty. Adhesive is only as good as its bond to the substrate. Butch Rowe New member Username: browe Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 02:11 pm:    George - one word of caution. How do you answer a building inspector who asks for test data that shows the track is properly afixed? Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 01:42 am:    I am very surprised that there is equipment so sensitive that it will be negatively impacted by powder actuated fasteners on the level above. While it creates a lowd noise the impact is over a very short period of time and the mass of the floor will have a dampening effect. There are often more significant sources of vibration in buildings. It is not uncommon for people to be concerned about vibration levels that are not significant. I will retain my doubts untill told by a vibration consultant that this was a big deal. With regards to the "fix", Butch is right. I have never heard of these adhesives being used structurally. There can be a number of reasons why this adhesive would not be appropriate for the long term and without some test results and the manufacturer's blessing I would be loath to use it in this manner. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 854 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 09:07 am:    Mark's point about vibration is interesting--a good point. I am very surprised how nervous our profession is about adhesives in construction. Silicone structural glazing is common, of course. (And we all now know about creep with epoxy anchors--at least in Boston--due to the ceiling collapse in the central artery tunnel here.) Adhesives are widely used in industry, including aviation where lives are obviously immediately at stake. We could probably improve quality and productivity by increasing their use. And like any construction product, the manufacturer should be consulted about the intended use. David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 264 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 09:54 am:    In addition to consulting the adhesive manufacturer, there's always the ability to mandate preconstruction adhesion testing too. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 406 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 02:58 pm:    Thanks everyone. Some follow up... Mark, regarding the sensitive equipment, it is precisely the noise issue that concerns the owner, not vibrations. Whatever testing is being done there (I haven't asked and I'm not sure I want to know!) is sensitive to noise, and there are no "off hours" to allow shooting fasteners. For this client, I am not sure there is an AHJ who would ask for testing, but I think David is right, preconstruction testing is the answer if tests are required. BTW, this in not the only oddball requirement on this project, it's just the only one we couldn't immediately solve. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 10 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 06:42 pm:    In Seattle, we (my employer) do not use only two rows of double-sided foam gasket tape under the floor track. Being in an active seismic zone, we use powder activated fasteners to secure the bottom track. My previous experience with the two rows of double-sided foam gasket tape on the floor was in a nonseismic zone. However, a gasket tape is included when required by the acoustical consultant. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 855 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, February 29, 2008 - 12:32 pm:    When looking for other information, I came across this information from the U. S. Steel web site, which I have quoted below. It is somewhat applicable to this discussion. Adhesive Bonding Adhesive bonding is a viable technique for joining coated steel sheet to either other coated or uncoated sheet as well as to other materials. The growing use of adhesive bonding in industries such as the automotive industry clearly demonstrates the reliability and durability of this fastening method. Adhesive bonding is an excellent method of joining dissimilar steel sheet products. It does not alter the properties of the steel or its coating. It provides uniform stress distribution and can be applied to reduce vibration and noise. Adhesive bonding can serve to enhance product design, so that mechanical fasteners and/or welding can be avoided. It can function as a moisture sealant. Also, it increases the range of material choices and material combinations available to the product designer. Two important conditions are necessary for proper use of adhesive bonding: (1) the load on the bonded area should be evenly distributed; (2) the joint should be stressed mainly in a shear mode; peel and cleavage forces should be minimal. Two types of adhesives, thermosets and thermoplastics, are widely used to join steel sheet. Thermoset adhesives generally possess high shear strength, rigidity and durability, and are capable of supporting a wide range of specified design loads. They include acrylics, epoxies, and urethanes. Thermoplastic adhesives generally are tough and ductile, and are excellent for energy-absorbing applications.