Delete vs. Omit?

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Author Message Bill Morley Senior Member Username: billm Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 05:04 pm:    I may be splitting hairs (too much time on my hands, apparently). I am editing the Alternates section to include another deductive alternate. Should I write "Delete the casework" or "Omit the casework"? Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 216 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 05:23 pm:    I prefer omit, though I can't tell you specifically why. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 756 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 05:53 pm:    I would use "delete" as in "Delete the work of Section 064000 Architectural Woodwork". Also, I'd use "add" to describe the stuff that's added. Bill Morley Senior Member Username: billm Post Number: 15 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 07:12 pm:    You know there's always that decision about whether to make the alternate bid an Add Alternate or a Deductive alternate. Maybe if we just made them all add alternates I wouldn't have to decide between 'delete' and 'omit'. So far the "Delete or Omit" poll is running pretty even - about 50/50. Maybe a better question to ask is whether it's better to write "Omit the casework" or "Delete the requirements for the casework". Like Nathan said, I can't tell you why that makes some sense to me. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 597 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 07:18 pm:    I think it depends on whether you think you're going to be over or under the budget amount and how limited the owner is and if they really want that thing (casework) or not. since the bid form typically shows add/delete, I would go with "delete", but make sure (as John says)that you describe what goes in that space if the casework isn't there. Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 73 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 08:28 pm:    Within an addenda, I use the terms "Add" and "Delete" (Delete Clause 2.03 A.3.b.) In a discription to an alternate, I use something along the lines of "Delete the Work associated with plastic laminate casework in Training Room 118 and substitute the Work associated with wood veneer casework as indicated on the Drawings and specified under Section 06410." Yes, MasterFormat 1995. I tend to make changes only when they clearly result in an improvement rather than just a change for change sake. Bob Woodburn Senior Member Username: bwoodburn Post Number: 201 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 09:42 pm:    Delete: take out something already included (e.g. from the text, or from the document requirements; if it were already built, one would use "remove" or "demolish"). Omit: leave out something not yet included (e.g. from the bid, or from the Work). Example: Delete casework requirements from the Project Manual, but omit casework from the bid, or from the project. But if its cost is included in a [base] bid, an alternate to omit (not delete) it (from the job) would deduct (not delete) its cost. DELETE contract requirements, OMIT work, DEDUCT cost. David J. Wyatt, CSI, CCS, CCCA (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 09:04 am:    I think Bob has nailed it! Bob, I suggest you send this to the task team working on a standard design/cvonstruction glossary. Perhaps you are a team member. Bill Morley Senior Member Username: billm Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 10:32 am:    Yea Bob. Thanks. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED™ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 623 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 11:06 am:    What a clear, concise, complete and correct explanation. Thanks, Bob. This should be included in the glossary and the PRM 5.8.2 Vocabulary! Bob Woodburn Senior Member Username: bwoodburn Post Number: 202 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 12:09 pm:    If you specify long enough, you get pretty good at splitting hairs. Maybe I've been in this long enough... John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 320 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:31 am:    I think it depends upon WHEN the action is to be taken. "Omit" refers to a future condition; "when preparing the bid, omit [_____]." "Delete" refers to something already in place, such as a proposed change; "delete" [_____]." When I prepare descriptions for alternate bids, I describe in detail two conditions: the Base Bid condition and the Alternate Bid condition. This has proven to be very beneficial because it forces the design decision maker to think through the whole matter. What is affected and what is unaffected by the alternate bid condition? Should there be consideration for future addition of omitted work (foundations, rough-ins, etc.)? I don't say "additive" or "deductive" alternate because sometimes it is not known whether one condition or the other will be of greater/lesser cost or lesser/greater time. Let the Contractor determine and state whether the net result is additive or deductive (although certainly some conditions are obviously additive or deductive).