| Author |
Message |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 120
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 07:01 pm: |    |
I have a problem with excessive lippage between tiles on a wall. In the TCA manual is states that lippage "is inherent in all installation methods and may also be unavoidable due to the tile tolerances, in accordance with ANSI A137.1"
I tried to find a copy of A137.1 on the ANSI website to no avail.
Specs for a maximum of 1/8 inch lippage, but apparently, there is 1/8 inch between all the tiles and it looks awful.
Any suggestions of a leg to stand on? And, any suggestions for a better way to spec lippage? |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 208
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 07:18 pm: | |
The ANSI standard is mostly about tile production, tell me the kind of tile and I'll look up the tolerance for you (if I can find my copy) as for lippage it varies with tile type and joint width. I will try to find a doc that I have for that too. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 744
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 07:39 pm: | |
The most recent version of ANSI 108.2 has lippage maximums based upon joint width. For joints in pavers of 1/8" to 1/4", the maximum is 1/32" lippage. For larger joints it is 1/16". It appears that every tile could have the maximum lippage without limit. Other products have slightly different requirements. The older ANSI standards did not have a lippage requirement, and unfortunately, if your spec is based on it, you may not be able to enforce these requirements. All of the ANSI material and installation standards are published in one booklet published by TCNA for a modest price, but I got a friendly rep to send me one for free. |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 121
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 01:10 am: | |
Marc: Any luck finding that document?
My tiles are 2 x 4 with minimal joints (1/8 inch) and according to the architect, "they look like waves" the way they are installed.
My specs call out: "Install tile to comply TCA installation methods and ANSI A108 Series of tile installation standards", so I would think that would include 108.2 - John - could you possible fax or email me the page that applies to lippage.
Much appreciated everyone! |
Lars Hubbard
Junior Member
Username: larshubb
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 08:33 am: | |
Take a look at http://www.tileusa.com/lippage_faq.htm. The lippage for tiles that small should not exceed 1/32 in. |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 204
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 09:18 am: | |
Robin:
What is the substrate and method of installation? Thinset is suitable for smooth substrates such as gypsum board, but for CMU substrates (or even most concrete) thickset is necessary in order to accommodate the looser tolerances inherent in masonry construction. |
Richard Howard, AIA CSI CCS LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: rick_howard
Post Number: 140
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 10:05 am: | |
I believe this may be more of a design issue than a spec or installation issue.
Tile warps when fired, making it almost impossible to lay it in a true plane. Even the best installation of wall tile will look bad when light falls on it at a high angle of incidence. DalTile used to have a warning for designers of the appearance issue of wall tile installed below cove lighting. Basically, the smaller the tile, the more noticeable the effect. |
Dale Roberts CSI, CDT
Senior Member
Username: dale_roberts_csi
Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 10:25 am: | |
Hi Robin,
A couple of points for you to consider the first is wall washer and cove lights will make a flat, smooth, good installation look like a poorly installed job. Dal tile has an article on their website on this type of lighting and the TCNA say Use of wall washer and cove-type lighting, where the lights are located either at the wall/ceiling interface, or mounted directly on the wall, are popular techniques of producing dramatic room lighting effects. When proper backing surfaces, installation materials and methods, and location of light fixtures are not carefully coordinated, these lighting techniques may produce shadows and undesirable effects with ceramic tiles. Similar shadows are created from side lighting interior walls and floors when light shines at that angle through window and doors.
Tile is a finish applied to and relying upon the underlying structure, an inadequate substructure can cause tile lippage and in some cases failure. In many cases problems in the substructure may not be obvious and the tile installer can not be expected to discover such.
Also check the tile is it flat and smooth or is the tile warped? And yes some installers do a bad job and there is a problem with lippage in tile installations |
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