Fire Poles

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Author Message Sharon Lund Senior Member Username: sharon_l Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:22 pm:    What MasterFormat number would you use for fire poles? I don't see a number listed for this purpose. My instinct is to use Division 10 Interior Specialties. What have others used? George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 294 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 01:16 pm:    I think it is better placed in Division 05, either under Metal Fabrications 05 5xxx or under Decorative Metal 05 7xxx. Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 585 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 01:52 pm:    Caution from an old bad situation; make sure you get the smoothest, "slickest" finish [may be even wax it]; colleague came up with several fire fighters "stuck" to the pole!!! Others with a painful slide! Gary L. Beimers, FCSI, CDT, CSC Senior Member Username: gbeimers Post Number: 12 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 05:42 pm:    I tend to agree with George on this one. In fact the Explanation entry beside 055900 Metal Specialties in the MasterFormat book reads "Includes specialties fabricated of standard metal shapes for specific purposes". This seems to fit. If you want a specific section for the slide pole (aka fire pole) perhaps a user defined level 3 under 055900. Metal stairs, which the pole is taking the place of, are also here as 0551xx. As are metal pipe and tube railings at 055213. As someone who remembers sliding down a banister or two, a slide pole might be considered an "extreme" railing. As most I've seen are brass, the problem Ralph refers to is result of good 'ol friction. Consider other potential problems with some early poles that were wood. Ouch! A little trivia - Captain David Kenyon of the Chicago Fire Department invented fire poles in 1878. Fire poles have fallen out of favor in recent years due to injuries. Many fire stations built today are single story structures that do not utilize fire poles. Sharon Lund Senior Member Username: sharon_l Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 08:09 am:    Thanks everyone. Really appreciate the insight and suggestions. I think we've decided to use metal fabrications. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 279 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 09:38 am:    My understanding is that Division 05 would be appropriate if the fire pole is a custom designed and fabricated from stock metal materials. If it is a purchased (manufactured) product, then it would be more appropriately in Division 14 - Conveying Equipment. Recognizing that no operating equipment (machinery) is involved in a fire pole assembly does not preclude using Division 14. Look at 14 90 00 Other Conveying Equipment, where laundry and linen chutes are listed. I think a new number and title needs to be created, such as 14 91 26 Fire Poles. (Note 14 91 23 Escape Chutes. How could this be listed while a more common product such as fire poles was omitted?) Gary L. Beimers, FCSI, CDT, CSC Senior Member Username: gbeimers Post Number: 13 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 02:59 pm:    I had considered Div 14 earlier as well, but assumed fire poles would be fabricated. Did a little extra research and found a couple sources of manufacturered poles . . . - McIntire Brass Works ( www.slidepole.com ). Manufacturered pole includes trim, safety railing and hole seal/closure - BrassFinders (www.brassfinders.com/fire poles.php ) - - poles & fittings Also found that some fire houses are using slides. That's pretty close in concept to escape chutes. John . . . perhaps this "work result" is fodder for a proposal on MasterFormat.com. Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 183 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 05:50 pm:    The two most recognized icons of firestations are sliding brass poles and Dalmatians. The use or even the presence of the traditional brass pole is symbolic of the firefighters’ long proud history. OTOH, insurance companies have discouraged their use due to injuries so it makes sense to question the Owner as to what their insurance company has to say about the use of sliding poles. At first brush, it makes sense to place sliding poles as “fabricated of standard metal shapes for specific purposes” under Section 55 5xxx. But what about their design? Within today’s codes, other factors should be considered other than just placing a vertical pole where rapid vertical transportation is desired like top safety railings, load criteria, cages, landing mats, pole material and diameter sizing, etc. Does the architect/specifier want to assume those design responsibilities? I think one should think system rather than assembly. Specifying a sliding brass pole system designed especially for the intended use by a proven experienced fabricator who stands behind their designs and fabrications makes a lot of sense to me since it will let me sleep better at night and most likely serves the best interest of the owner. Since MF04 is mute on Fire Fighting Equipment, Divisions 10, 11 and 14 could certainly be used for the reasons stated above. Division 5 could also be used as long as it was a fabricator designed component like stair and railing assemblies. I have no problem classifying it under equipment. For years, I have always specified bumpers under Loading Dock Equipment. To answer Sharon’s original question, place the section where it makes the most sense based on your educated determination and the project needs. After all we write specs to best communicate to the constructors but to comply with MF04. That’s why they are paying you the big bucks. <g> The following is from: http://www.edarley.com/finditem.cfm?itemid=8258 “.....Slide pole comes complete with chrome plated brass guard rail, cage and quick opening gate, brass floor and ceiling ring with stainless steel cylinder, aluminum shutters and landing mat. The pole is hard drawn polished 2 1/2-inch in diameter with a wall thickness of 5/32-inch.“ John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 280 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 06:29 pm:    In the mid-'80's I was project architect for a new 2-story fire station (and administrative headquarters). A brass pole was included. It was, as Ron Beard described, a system with the moving components noted. That's why it seems inappropriate for Division 05. As for fire fighting equipment, the pole system has as much to do with fires as the red paint on the fire apparatus. Iconic, sure, but not reason enough to put in a Division with fire suppression systems. Oh, it was fun as we on the design and construction teams took advantage of a once-in-a-lifetime experience to go down a genuine fire pole. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 513 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 06:42 pm:    I couldn't resist adding this: one of the weirder sites I visit is "Half Bakery" which is full of... you guessed it ... half-baked ideas. below is the idea of using very long fire poles for emergency fire exits from a building... http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/Fire_20Escape_20Flag_20Poles Anne Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 184 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 06:59 pm:    The important thing to coordinate in Anne's solution is to be sure to be the last person down. It is very important to be behind John. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 191 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 10:36 pm:    So, Ron, where would you specify Dalmations? Not an easy question to answer--MasterFormat has a spotty record for this kinda thing... Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 185 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:14 am:    Section 03 0100 - Graffiti Removal?? Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 438 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 01:29 am:    John brings up a good point. MasterFormat is an organization of work results, and a fire pole is a lot more than just a pole. Some fire pole assemblies, for OSHA and building code purposes, provide guardrails to protect people from falling through the openings, and fire-resistance-rated doors since they typically penetrate a rated floor assembly. My take would be to follow John's logic in his earlier post using Division 14--say 14 93 00. Tracy Van Niel, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 215 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 08:10 am:    Re: Dalmations If you look in the keyword index, doghouse says to see control house, control house equipment is indicated as 33 72 33 ... although 13 19 00 Kennels and Animal Shelters may be a better choice since the description says it is facilities for housing and providing healthcare for animals. On the other hand, it is a well known fact that animals contribute to the health and well being of people who live with them (or are visited by them as therapy dogs visiting a facility) so maybe 11 73 00 Patient Care Equipment might be a good choice. And, considering the entertainment value that comes with living with a dog, there is also 11 60 00 Entertainment Equipment that might work.