| Author |
Message |
George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 275
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 06:30 pm: |    |
We are being asked to consider using a lay-in suspended ceiling on the exterior as a cost saving option to a plaster or eifs ceiling. The condition is above a grade level parking area under a six story office building. I've seen this in older office buildings (fifties and sixties) and it always looks terrible – warped and discolored tiles, rusting and bent grid, etc. I am also concerned about how we would handle uplift, and air infiltration into the building (where is the air barrier?).
Nobody in the office has positive feelings about this system (and I am not sure anyone even makes such an animal these days), but I thought I post the question here so we at least make the effort of tracking it down for our client. Has anyone successfully used a suspended lay-in ceiling in an exterior application recently? |
Randy Cox
Senior Member
Username: randy_cox
Post Number: 35
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 09:16 am: | |
George,
We've used Vinylrock X as manufactured by BPB America Inc. I think USG also has some gypsum ceiling systems. They look OK, and we're told they shouldn't sag. I've been told that the standard acoustic ceiling panels sag because the mineral fibers absorb moisture. These are gypsum based and shouldn't have that problem.
We haven't yet found the grid system that we want to use again and again. |
Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: don_harris
Post Number: 119
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 09:26 am: | |
From USG Gyp Const. Handbook...
"The typical environment for a suspended ceiling system is an enclosed and watertight building with all permanent heating and cooling systems in operation. All residual moisture from plaster, concrete or terrazzo has been dissipated. Temperatures remain in a range from 60-80° F, with
relative humidity not exceeding 80%. Climatic conditions from outside these boundaries may have adverse effects on the panels and grid."
That being said, the ceiling manufacturers, I believe, all have some product that they say can be used on the exterior. Check with them.
As far as grid, aluminum or stainless steel. The painted galvanized won't last.
The other issue is wind uplift. That needs to be looked at carefully. In some areas, hold down clips are not enough. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 655
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 09:50 am: | |
I really don't like the look of the gypsum products, they have no style. It always looks so low end.
I prefer the Eurostone product from Chicago Metallic. Its a 2 by 2 3/4 inch thick panel. It comes in a variety of textures from a very coarse almost 'split face block' look to a very fine granular surface. The edge is a reveal edge.
It costs more, but you get what you pay for. These panels are a true life cycle building product. They are virtually indestructible, very abuse resistant. And for conditions like ceilings in garage spaces they can be cleaned when dirty. I have seen panels that were several years old taken down, leaned against a wall and cleaned with a high pressure washing system. And left leaning against the wall to dry. No warp, and put back up look as fine as they day they were originally installed.
They are a volcanic product, not like your normal 3/4 inch thick product.
They are certified by the manufacturer for installation in exterior exposure, as well as high humidity locaitons like pool ceilings. The manufacturer has excellent support for situations where uplift of the panel might be a concern.
So even as a more expensive product, this product keeps on looking great.
As a bonus, its also classified as a 'green' product.
William |
George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 297
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 02:49 pm: | |
We are still looking at soffit systems, including those mentioned above, and hope to have this issue resolved shortly, but I wanted to respond to William's post. I called the Chicago Metallic technical people, and they do not recommend Eurostone for our application, because they don't have UL-30 testing for uplift. Apparently the panels are too brittle, and that’s unfortunate because Eurostone is a great product, for all the reasons William mentioned. Chicago Metallic does have a metal panel snap in system, Planostile, with the UL-30 testing for exterior use, available in aluminum, and we are looking at that system. Unfortunately, this will all hinge on cost, and I doubt either of these systems would to come in with any significant savings. Thanks to all for your suggestions. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 04:23 pm: | |
I have specified a couple of exterior, lay-in panel ceiling/soffit systems. I used Ceilings Plus as a basis of design. They had systems and recommendations for these systems (moisture issues, wind load issues, etc.), and they worked out fine. |
Ken Moore, FCSI, CCS, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: kjmoore
Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 04:48 pm: | |
George
Consider Armstrong's "Ceramaragard". It's a ceramice tile, will not warp, being ceramic will not be effected by Moisture. Suggest the 2 x 2 panels with clips all 4 sides.
Clips are a must to hold tile down, also specifiy bracing, similar to seimic conditions, to hold suspension system from lifting up under windy conditions.
An aluminum grid is a must, galv. will start to rust in 3 to 5 years.
Con for Ceramaguard is it is brittle and Armstrong is only mfg I know of that produces a ceramic panel.
Susgest you call Jerry Andrews to see if he can guide you to some existing projects for you to look at.
Confirm with Jerry that the composition of this tile has not changed since it's comception in the 70's. Current litreture stated ceramic and mineral. Do no remember the mineral part when I specified it. |
George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 298
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 12:12 pm: | |
Ken-
We're looking at Ceramagard too, but it seems that it's not warranted for exterior use. Armstrong has a metal system that is, however.
Will we see you in St. Louis for the CSI chapter's 50th anniversary celebration in June? |
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