| Author |
Message |
John Hunter
Senior Member
Username: johnhunter
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 06:42 pm: |    |
Here in northern California, we've been getting a tremendous amount of resistance lately from Contractors regarding submitting shop drawings. We've witnessed it across most all Sections, but with a particular sore spot being cold formed metal framing.
While I've advised design teams to point out to Contractors that shop drawings, and all other required submittals for that matter, are not optional but are Contract requirements, there continues to be resistance from the Contractors along with an increasingly-popular "I'll proceed at my own risk" pattern of behavior from the GC's. The strength of the resistance has on occasion led the requirement to be waived, usually with the expected negative results.
All of which has made me realize that, though I've been reviewing shop drawings for the 25 odd years I've been in the Architecture business, I don't really know their history or how they've come to occupy the role they do in the Construction business.
Anyway, if anyone has any sources they could point me towards that deal with the origins of shop drawings (legal, social, cultural, and otherwise), I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking that if I can explain a bit of the history well to our staff, it will help their understanding of the whys and wherefores of shop drawings and will help them insure that the Contract requirements are fulfilled. |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wyancey
Post Number: 307
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 07:54 pm: | |
Look to the history of AIA A201.
I have been in the profession for 40 years and this is a first for me also.
Question: I assue you are referring to axial and wind loadbearing light gage metal framing, Div 05 Section 05 4000. Is the spec for cold-formed metal framing a delegated design performance spec or did the structural engineer design the stud sizes, thickness, spacing, etc?
There has been resistance in the GC community to duck this Contract requirement.
At the end of the day a contract requirement is a contract requirement till the fat lady (read owner) sings. Until then, the GC is in breach of contract. |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: markgilligan
Post Number: 137
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 12:51 am: | |
historically shop drawings were just that. They were the drawings that were to be used by the shop to fabricate the work and would have to be produced in normal course of the work. The designers availed themselves of the opportunity to check them before fabrication.
In the case of cold formed metal framing, for many uses, there is a tradition of doing the layout and fabricating on site without shop drawings. I believe the resistance comes because their normal pricing dosen't account for this effort, the contractor is not normally set up to prepare shop drawings, and you are causing them to change the way their crews operate. |
Kenneth C. Crocco
Senior Member
Username: kcrocco
Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 12:39 pm: | |
Understanding the function of design documents and specifications to describe the design, shop drawings, from which the actual building is built must be created by the builder. If the profession were to suggest that the design drawings were prepared in such a manner that the builder could actually build from them, there would be a great impact in the profession to create complete final drawings (which I don't wish to get into here). My only point is the shop drawings we typically require submittals for are necessary to build from and need to be created by the contractor anyway. The question is what review is necessary, if any. That is up to the design professional. |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 251
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 08:02 am: | |
Following on Ken's comments: a possible response from the architect to a situation where the contractor is unwilling to fulfill the contract requirements for shop drawings is that the architect provide a proposal to the owner for their preparation and the necessary site inspections, or inform the owner that they cannot certify payment for that portion of the work.
For work such as cold formed metal framing, which has structural implications, informing the building official that the work has not been engineered may be a requirement. |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 235
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:50 am: | |
The short answer is that the Contractor does not get to pick and choose which contract requirements he complies with and which he doesn't.
It sounds like your contractor is not trying to get out of procuding all Shop Drawings, just some of them. In the particular situation you raise, there is a component of "delegated design" that assigns particular design responsibility to a subcontractor.
There may be some confusion about whether what you really need is a Shop Drawing or a delegated design submittal with the appropriate certifications and engineering "seals." If your drawings and specifications indicate depth, gage, and spacing of your cold-formed metal framing, you have no design to delegate and you may not even need shop drawings. |
John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: john_regener
Post Number: 292
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:24 pm: | |
It's important to understand the original intent (based on AIA A201 General Conditions) for submittals. Submittals are for communication from the Contractor to the Architect, expressing the Contractor's understanding of requirements for the Work. The Architect's review is to confirm that the understanding is correct.
If there is delegated design responsibility, if the specifications are written using various methods of specifying that require lesser or greater specificity (refer to the PRM), if there are deferred approvals to be obtained from authorities having jurisdiction, the whole matter of submittals gets more complicated. And if submittals are used (erroneously) by the Contractor to slip through substitutions or by the Architect (erroneously) to correct errors or omissions, then submittals will become more sensitive.
The review of shop drawings for things such as structural steel or cold formed metal framing or concrete rebar can mean reviewing hundreds of sheets of drawings. This is also true for ductwork and probably dozens of other products an assemblies. The conflict I see for the Architect and other responsible design professionals is between the legitimate desire for quality assurance and the inappropriate and risky involvement into means, methods, techniques and sequences of construction.
Depending upon the complexity of the construction, the sophistication of the design and construction team members, shop drawings will have greater or lesser importance. Prognosticating what BIM will do the subject of shop drawings --- where the text and graphic data produced by the responsible design professionals are dumped into the great BIM program for manipulation, extraction and use by others for procurement, fabrication and installation --- it seems to me that the intensity of the issues related to shop drawings increases but the issues nevertheless are the same as what is presently done under the traditional "analog" process. |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: markgilligan
Post Number: 163
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 03:02 am: | |
To the extent an object was modeled in the BIM which was handed to the Contractor, there is apparently no need for shop drawings. Where the BIM model prepared by the design professional did not include features such as steel connections then shop drawings are still needed.
On some projects steel detailers use 3D modeling programs that can send instructions directly to fabrication equipment. When this happens they no longer need the shop drawings which are still prepared for the use of the engineer. These "shop drawings" are semi automatically produced and do not contain the same detail as the old shop drawings. This makes it more difficult to review these "shop drawings". We probably need a new name for these drawings since they are no longer used by the shop.
Traditionally the shop drawing process resulted in another set of eyes to identify problems. We will lose this with BIM. The design professional will also have to acquire the special knowledge that currently resides in the Contractors people. I am not sure that we are ready for this. This may shift some liability to the designers.
Given that most of the large offices are claiming they can use BIM I would expect that people out there have found ways to deal with the concerns listed above. I would welcome the insight. On the other hand if there are no good responses then I suggest that we are on the bleeding edge. |
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