| Author |
Message |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: markgilligan
Post Number: 113
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 01:33 pm: |    |
The Geotechnical Report makes most of the key decisions related to earthwork and grading and the Geotechnical Engineer is normally responsible for the construction testing and inspections. The problem is that the Geotechnical Engineer is not commonly involved in writing of the construction specifications. The question is then who writes these sections?
In the past some Geotechs have resisted involvement with specifications and have taken the position that their report was all they were responsible for. More recently I am hearing Geotechs say they would be willing to author these spec sections but the client did not want to pay for the additional fee.
As a result this task has often fallen on the Architect, the Civil Engineer, and in some rare instances the Structural Engineer. All of these options are less than desirable since these individuals typically cannot be classified as subject matter experts related to earthwork and grading. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 623
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 01:58 pm: | |
Its really a very simple process.
I send the spec to the geotech and to the structural engineer (civil is typically a separate package publishing separately on about 99% of our projects so they are not involved).
Structural marks them up for his level of input (I tell them that the geotech is the prime responsibility, they are a commenter), though sometimes they defer entirely to the geotech and then make their comments during our review process.
If geotech fails to provide markups (suggestions are not markups) then I tell the owner that he may need to contact his geotech for this product.
We don't publish the section until geotech has marked it up.
William |
Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: rjray
Post Number: 64
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 03:04 pm: | |
I write 95 percent of the earthwork and trenching specifications on the projects I am involved with.
I have never had a geotechnical firm not want to review the specifications I prepare. In fact, most geotechnical reports I see included a request that the geotechnical firm that prepared the report be giving the opportunity to review earthwork specifications prior to the project being issued for bidding. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 07:29 pm: | |
Ultimately the project's engineers (e.g., civil & structural) are responsible for their respective "engineered" designs...which is generally based on geotech report (I presume for "pass-thru" liability should problems/issues arise). I not yet encountered a geotech making any formal earthwork/grading specs markups or "suggestions".
Note: In my experience, geotech report is NOT part of contract documents, thus it is design team's responsibility to design/engineer the project...and thus convey that in contract documents (i.e., earthwork/grading, foundation specs section)...right? |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: markgilligan
Post Number: 114
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 03:52 am: | |
Any Geotech who declines to review the project drawings and specifications is definately not following standard practice. If this is the case I would do some due dilligance to find what is going on.
I make it a point to have the Geotech review our drawings to assure that we have interpreted his recommendations correctly.
While structural engineers follow the recommendatins from the Geotechnical Engineer we are not involved with such issues as to what is acceptable soil, backfill, compaction etc. These issues are addressed in one or more specification sections that the Geotechnical Engineer should either write or edit. The fact that the Geotech Report is not a part of the Contract Documents is all the more reason for the Geotech to review the drawings and specifications.
The fact that the Geotechnical report is not a part of contract documents does not automatically transfer responsibility for geotechnical issues to other members of the design team.
While it is not common for Geotechnical Engineers to prepare drawings I has happened. Recently there was a site retaining structure that used precast elements and geo fabric that the Geotechnical Engineer designed and prepared drawings for. |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 221
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 10:02 pm: | |
In our region, the Geotech engineer is retained by the Owner and makes recommendations which are incorporated by the civil and structural engineers in their designs. The geotechnical report is an attachment to Available Information - useful, but not a contract document. The Geotechnical engineer has no standing in the construction and provides no direction to the contractor. I have occasionally had to explain this to civil engineers who were inclined to simply reference the geotechnical report in an attempt to avoid their own responsibility for the design. The geotech gives no direction to the contractor. Onsite testing may be by the same or another engineer, and the onsite testing engineer makes recommendations to the project designer, who in turn provides direction to the contractor.
Review and comment on design and construction issues by the geotechs is always a good idea. However, they don't serve as the project designers in practice in our area. |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI
Senior Member
Username: markgilligan
Post Number: 117
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 02:37 am: | |
In California the Geotechnical engineer is also retained by the Owner. In some instances the Owner will also hire the structural engineer directly. When this happens we typically work with the Architect no differently than if they hired us directly. The one difference is who pays our invoices. Similarly in my experience the geotechnial is an integral member of the design team irregardless of who hires them.
It is common for Geotechnical Engineers to state in their report that their recommendations are contingent upon being hired to inspect the grading and earthwork. It is my understanding that when the geotechnical engineer inspects the earth work they interact directly with the grading contractor. Maybe formally they do not have the right to reject the work but in most cases the contractor acts if they do.
While the geotechnical engineer rarely signs the contract documents, the geotechnical engineer is the one who establishes the criteria for grading and back fill. If the civil engineer translates those recommendations into the specifications he is performing essentially a clerical task and is not taking responsibility for the content. In this situation I believe that the professionally responsible thing is to have the geotechnical engineer edit or write the earthwork and grading specifications. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 616
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 08:50 am: | |
While it makes sense, given what everyone has said here (largely the same in my experience), for the soils engineer to write the specification, I've never seen that in practice. I have frequently seen them comment on them, however, as is done here in my office. We have in-house civil engineers who write the earthwork specifications. As to their role during construction, I see it similar to the testing agency's role in inspecting rebar and structural steel. While they may have no direct contractual relationship with the contractor, contractors will listen and respond. It's a lot cheaper to do that than ignore them, wait for the report that says the work is non-conforming, and then redo it. |
|
4specs.com Home Page