Author |
Message |
Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec
Post Number: 271 Registered: 05-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 10:40 am: | |
Looking for language to include in our Gypsum Board spec section to avoid a current problem we have on a project where after the installation of the pocket door assemblies, there exists too much deflection in the partion surrounding the pocket. Unfortunately the Architect did not detail the pocket door condition and the partitions on standard 4 in nom. 25 gage metal studs. These are standard hollow core wood doors in a residential/multi family setting. Any suggestions for our future specifications would be appreciated? |
Jo Drummond, FCSI Senior Member Username: jod
Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 11:19 am: | |
Here's something that might help: After specifying the gauges, sizes, tracks, etc., I say something like this: C. Stud gauges indicated on drawings or specified above are minimum. Where height of walls or loads imposed by items attached to or supported by the framing exceed Code approvals or manufacturer's recommendations, provide heavier gauge studs and/or decrease stud spacing as necessary to conform to code approvals and manufacturer’s recommendations, at no additional contract cost. |
Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: markgilligan
Post Number: 108 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 11:34 am: | |
Jo As I understand it you are asking the Contractor to review your design, make engineering and possibly architectural decisions, and to act as if this were a design build contract. In which case I would also specify the design criteria and require that the engineering and architectural decisions be made by a registered design professional. I would also eliminate information from the documents about connections and specific member sizes. I believe that you either ned to provide a complete design or assign the responsibility for such a design to the Contractor. |
Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wyancey
Post Number: 208 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 04:27 pm: | |
Jerome, In my humble opinion, your conundrum is a lackluster pocket door hardware kit issue, not a gypsum board/steel stud issue. I propose you specifiy a more robust pocket door hardware kit and specify or detail 365S125-30 (20 gage drywall stud) studs in walls containing pocket doors. I assume you normally include door jamb and head details to show how the door opening is trimmed (head and jambs) and detail the steel studs at the back of the pocket. Stanley offers pocket door kits. Jo, I beg to differ regarding your suggested language transfering design to the GC. It seems to me you are asking the GC to be just as clairvoyant (able to see beyond the range of ordinary perception) as a specification writer. What are the consequences if the wall continues to deflect after the GC has beefed up the gage and reduced the spacing? Who makes the final declaration that deflection limits are now acceptable? Wayne |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick
Post Number: 602 Registered: 03-2002
| Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 05:43 pm: | |
If the partition thickness sans GWB is 4 inches (which means 3-1/2 inch actual, if wood), you will never be able to get satisfactory stiffness on the pocket. Assuming a 1-3/8 inch door (residential) plus 1/4 inch extra space (if you can build it that carefully), you only have 15/16 inch thickness left for each side of the pocket for structure -- can't be done with any sort of stiffness. This is what I have in my house. The kit comes with c-shaped metal studs "filled" with wood that you put flat-side to the drywall. If you use 6 inch thick studs, you now have 1-15/16 inch each side, which with a heavy gauge 2 inch steel stud might have a reasonable amount of stiffness. Though I have no problem requiring a GC to do some engineering of metal framing systems, I think this one is better figured out in advance and detailed on the drawings. |
John Hunter Senior Member Username: johnhunter
Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 06:01 pm: | |
First, I would agree with Wayne that the pocket door hardware kit is probably at issue - there are functional problems with even the best of them and if this is a budget-driven situation, you probably won't get the best. This might be a good "teachable moment" i.e. don't use pocket doors, particularly for toilet rooms or other high frequency doors, unless there is no other option. We put a table on the interior partition details sheet indicating the gauge of stud for door jambs, partitions that support cabinets, etc. That addresses the issue of providing the information to the contractor although it doesn't prevent the problem of having the wrong gauge stud ending up in the wrong place. |
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