Binder Tabs

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Author Message Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 54 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 06:06 pm:    Following the other thread, I have investigated binder tabs and would like to make a offer to the 4specs users. Set of 00 and 02-14 tabs in a 14 cut tab set (ie 14 tabs on each bank of pages) Set of 21,22,23,25,27,28,31,32,33 also in a 14 cut set - so that people working in the engineering divisions would have all of them in a matching set - all the tabs the same width and color combination as in the first bank of tabs. Possibily other combinations - such as just 31,32,33 as we go along, and perhaps 15, 16 and do the banks as banks of 16 so the 15/16 fits on the first bank. I am assuming just the number on the tab and no description. The cost to me is a bit under $3 for the set of 14 tabs, about $2 for the set of 9 tabs in quantities of 1,000 sets, plus postage amd mailing to you. My wife thought a promotion of 5 sets to each 4specs-specifier user (anticipating around 500 specifiers responding) would be a great reminder of 4specs and a reason to tell others about 4specs. If you wanted more (say 30 sets) we would sell the additional ones at cost - probably paying with a credit card through Paypal to keep it simple or possibly a check to 4specs. We could also make sets in quantity available to chapters to sell (selling them at or below our cost - we would like to put our logo on the first page, but that would be negotiable). Questions: 1. Is this of interest to you and how many sets would you want? 2. All tabs white or multicolored? 3. Your thoughts of the interest at the chapter level to resell? 4. Need for 34,35, 40+ sections? 5. Other suggestions or comments. If this goes ahead I will place an order for the first 1,000 sets and make an announcement here and set up the way to order. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 169 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 06:58 pm:    I really like having the names (or a shortened version thereof) on the TAB. just plain numbers I can get. Colors are fine. 34-35 etc. would not be needed but one in a blue moon but it would be nice to know you could get them. Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 343 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, October 09, 2006 - 07:00 pm:    Q1: Yes! Q2: White is fine for my needs. Q3: Has potential--I'll check with my chapter's fundraising chair. Q4: Not really, except I do use Division 41 on occasion (41 22 00) for hoists and jib cranes. Q5: Why drop Division 01? I would rather have 01 and not 00 since 00 is right there at the beginning behind the TOC and the few sheets of other introductory information. David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 168 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 08:49 am:    Q1: Yes! And about 100 sets (00 - 33) to start. Q2: For ease of use and loacating, tabs should be colored (but all one color would be fine; no need to have multiple colors per set). And I second the motion for including the Division name, even if some of them have to be abbreviated. Q3: Possible. I'll pass it on. Q4: Ditto on Division 41. Q5: Need both Division 00 and Division 01 (bearing in mind that the tabs will be used for purposes other than filing just product data). And add Division 26 to your list also. Thank you, Colin John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 587 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 09:07 am:    I did a google search and found several manufacturers of custom tabs. Price ranged from about $10 each for 100 sets to under $5 each for 1,000. This included all Divisions, including 00 through 42 (except unassigned ones, of course), with Division names. For maximum flexibility at limited extra cost, I would propose including all divisions, including 00. This would make them useful to more people and firms. In my office, since many would use the tabs who haven't memorized MF 2004, having the names on them is almost mandatory. Color is not important, but all one color is best. Without all sections, and without Division names, I would not be interested. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wyancey Post Number: 191 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 11:09 am:    CSI used to offer tabs for sale for 16 Division MF. I still have several sets in use. They are white with Division # on tab, and all 16 divisions listed; current division boldfaced. Still work grrreeeaaattt! Colin, I'm in for whatever your produce. Wayne J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 204 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 05:19 pm:    I just had a request for some of the older 16-division tabs last week (they can be recycled) so I know there is interest. I would be interested. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 735 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 08:09 pm:    Thanks Colin! Q1: I'm interested in about a dozen to start with. Q2: Tighty whities is fine with me. ;-) Q3: Speaking as the immediate past president of the Puget Sound Chapter, we are always looking for ways to earn money and provide services to our members. So yes my chapter is interested in buying in bulk. Q4: No on 34 through 49. Just can't see a use for them on future projects. Q5: I would like Divisions 00 and 01. It would be nice to put the division name on the tab even if in small print. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 589 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 08:55 am:    I suppose David is correct in that we, too, would make limited use of Divisions 34 through 48. Perhaps they can be available separately. I'd prefer a color over white. (And by the way, David, isn't it "tidy" whities?) Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 398 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 04:55 pm:    I'm with all the rest; yes we want them; white is fine; no on 34-49; divs 00 and 01 are very useful. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 206 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 11:58 am:    CSI used to produce a set of tabs that had the "broadscope" sections listed on the face of the tab sheet. The later editions did not have this listing, and I was sorry to see it go. It was a useful reference for those who were less familiar with where everything is supposed to go. Gerard Sanchis (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 02:40 pm:    Colin, We'd be interested in Div 1 thru 16 with additional tab for 0. Quantity would probably start at 50 sets. We have not switched to MF 2004 yet, but expect to do it soon, so we'll also need those eventually; we wouldn't need 34-49. I also agree on a single color and name of the divisions on the tabs. [We are getting close to getting these printed - perhaps in the next 2 weeks. Price looks like $5 per set of 27 - 25 plus 2 blanks you could use for 15/16 - plus postage. I'll let everyone know once they are available. Colored tabs and division number and title on each tab - done in 3 banks of 9 tabs each. Colin] David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 177 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 03:51 pm:    Colin, Just to clarify the 27 tabs: First group of 9: 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 Second group: 09 10 11 12 13 14 21 22 23 Third group: 25 26 27 28 31 32 33 blank blank Does this sound about right? Thanks again for taking this on; I suspect these will be very popular. Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 57 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 04:57 pm:    Exactly - here are the tab numbers, position and color Bank 1 Tab Position Color 00 - Procurement 1 Clear 01 - General Requirements 2 Light Grey 02 - Existing Conditions 3 lt blue 03 - Concrete 4 med blue 04 - Masonry 5 dark blue 05 - Metals 6 purple 06 - Wood & Plastics 7 lt green 07 - Thermal & Moisture 8 med green 08 - Openings 9 dark green Bank 2 09 - Finishes 1 lt yellow 10 - Specialties 2 yellow 11 - Equipment 3 pink 12 - Furnishings 4 coral 13 - Special Construction 5 light amber 14 - Conveying Equipment 6 brown 21 - Fire Suppression 7 orange 22 - Plumbing 8 Warm Red 23 - HVAC 9 Red Bank 3 25 - Integrated Automation 1 lt blue 26 - Electrical 2 med blue 27 - Communications 3 dark blue 28 - Electronic Safety 4 purple 31 - Earthwork 5 lt green 32 - Exterior Improvements 6 med green 33 - Utilities 7 dark green (leave blank) 8 light grey (leave blank) 9 dark grey Any feedback is highly desirable. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wyancey Post Number: 201 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 07:06 pm:    Colin, I prefer color white for all for simplicty. Large font boldface Division # with small font for Division name is good enough for me. Color coding is not important. I prefer for Bank 1 include 00-14 inclusive; Bank 2 21-33 inclusive. Thanks for taking ownership of this much needed product. Wayne ps Think snow. Julie Root Senior Member Username: julie_root Post Number: 68 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 07:41 pm:    I will order some regardless if they are all white or with color. Thanks for taking it on. I also agree with Wayne about the large for Div No. and small for name. Tomas Mejia, CCS, CCCA, LEED Senior Member Username: tmejia Post Number: 31 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 25, 2006 - 10:23 pm:    Colin, Count me in regardless if white or in color. Thanks Tommy John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 597 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 08:58 am:    We will order as well. Prefer a single color. By referring to "banks", I assume that the proposal is for nine tabs top to bottom before starting again at the top. Are they big enough to clearly read? Would we be better off with five-cut tabs (or something) so the text could be larger? Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 481 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 09:30 am:    Just another idea for the "banks"-- 1. Div. 00 through 19 2. Div. 20 through 26 3. Div. 27 through 33 and if possible include about 5 blanks for those of us who use some variations to suit our practices. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 443 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 09:54 am:    I currently use sets of dividers that have 15 per bank. They are numbered only, in about a 20 point font. There is room on the tab for a very small division name abbreviation (4 point, perhaps). The numbers are easily read; the names would be much less so. The 9 per bank that Colin proposes seems like a good compromise between size of bank and readability of tab information if the name is included. The only suggestion for change that I would make is to consider that, when project manuals are printed in 2 volumes, they are separated after Division 14 (Volume 1), and Mechanical, Electrical, Fire Protection, and the rest are put into Volume 2. If it would be possible to have the banks accomodate that arrangement, it would lend some consistency. Perhaps 2 banks of 9 (with 3 blanks in the second bank), numbered 00 through 14? Unfortunately, the rest don't divide neatly into groups of 9 - or there are a lot of blanks! But I'm in regardless! scott keener Member Username: keener Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 10:34 am:    Colin.. Q1 - I'm sure we can use a dozen or so Q2 - Ditto Julie and Tomas Q3 - I planted the seed at Pittsburgh Chapter (I'm IPP, which is to say, one tiny voice). We'll see. Q4 and Q5 - Fine the way you have them outlined in your post yesterday (Will division titles be abbreviated?) I'm ambivalent about including Div 00, and even Div 01, since I keep that stuff in a separate binder anyway, but I'm guessing that the tab sets will be more marketable if those tabs are included. Good call. As Wayne and Lynn kind of alluded, Bank 2 will be a little awkward for me also since I keep all my MEP stuff separate, but still 3 readable banks of 9 is better than 2 banks of too-tiny tabs. I can easily work with what you've laid out. Makes sense. Good call. No complaints. Thanks for doing this. On the snow, though, I vote no. Robert E. Woodburn Senior Member Username: bwoodburn Post Number: 140 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, October 26, 2006 - 12:33 pm:    For me, all white, or at least all one color (especially a light neutral color, like a light warm gray) would be much more preferable. Whether we are architects or designers or not, we each have our own tastes, and our own color and design preferences, so it is likely that one person's color choices (such as those proposed above--especially with a seemingly arbitrary color-coding scheme) would not be what most of us would have chosen, and could well be a very visible negative every time we open the binder. Regarding how these are broken up into "banks," how about arranging them to correspond with the MF 2004 subgroups, three of which are equivalent to the 20s, 30s and 40s? (Be sure to include 15 & 16; for many of us, these divisions may not go away anytime soon...) Like this: 00 - 09 (10 tabs--a full bank) 10 - 16 (7 tabs) 21 - 28 (7 tabs; 24 omitted) 31 - 35 (5 tabs) 41 - 48 (7 tabs; 46 & 47 omitted; bank optional) Also--and this, I think, might be important-- align the common second digits horizontally--so 01 is directly in front of 11, 21 and 31 (and 41, if included). Yes, there would be gaps in all but the first bank--but that would allow easy modification in the unlikely event that MF expands soon into one or more "reserved" divisions. Plus, there's a logic to it that might make it easier to find a particular division, particularly if the tabs are so close together that they are not all legble... Of course, most of us would not need 41-48, so the last bank could be optional or omitted entirely, unless or until there's a market for these in the process engineering industry. But I might have a need for anything through the 30-series. IMNSHO, division numbers should be at least 1/4 inch high and oriented straight up (portrait style) in a bold sans-serif typeface such as Eras Bold; division titles would probably best be turned 90 degrees to be readable from the right, in upper & lower case, in a small, light version of the same font. Printing the number and title on both sides of the tab would be a worthwhile bonus. I don't think plastic coating or reinforcing of the binder edge and the tabs is absolutely necessary, but those too would be very desirable. They'd last a lot longer. I don't anticipate using these in printed project manuals (due to expense, and since they make it so difficult to flip through them), but they would be handy in in-house working 3-ring binders, from the SD phase through CA. In fact, I already use the standard preprinted 15-tab divider sets, and supplement them with the slip-in labeled type, though they don't match. So one or more matching but unlabeled tabs might be halpful (perhaps filling out an incomplete series, so they could be inserted in any of those partial banks). Great idea, Colin! One whose time has come...