Recommendations to seal a balcony wit...

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Author Message Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 04:47 pm:    Has anyone successfully placed an exterior balcony over a conditioned space below without water problems? If so, what construction technique (s), product (s) were used? Concrete slab over barrier over concrete slab? Concrete slab with barrier with paver? Coating on top of concrete slab? I am looking for any and all suggestions available. Thank you Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 674 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 04:53 pm:    I've used all three. The system depends on the look that the architect wants (and, as always, budget). The key, in my opinion, is to treat it more as a roof rather than a balcony (i.e. proper flashing, slope, drainage system, etc.). Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 822 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 05:08 pm:    I've also done all three and absolutely agree with Ron -- treat it as though its a roof. Absolutely make sure the drains are where they should be, and do something so that they drain continually and can't get clogged up. if you anticipate plants (big plants with leaves that fall all over the place) up there, then make sure there is a way to deal with them -- planting wells, or something like that. when I've seen failures of these installations, its always the dumb stuff--- slabs sloping away from the drains, water barrier improperly installed, discontinuities in the finish... Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 04:59 pm:    I have had success with Noble Seal's Deck Seal product as a primary waterproofing membrane with thinset tile over the top. Jerry Tims Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 05:14 pm:    American Hydrotech has what they call the "Ultimate Assembly" which includes waterproofing, protection board, rigid insulation, pavers, etc as a single warranted assembly. We like to use it so that one manufacturer warrants everything to reduce the amount of finger pointing in case of a leak. Here's their info: http://www.hydrotechusa.com/ultimate-assembly.htm Siplast has a similar assembly called Teranap Plaza Deck. We've never actually used it though so I can't vouch for it from first hand experience. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 138 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 05:21 pm:    We have variations of all three on the boards right now. The cost can vary here easily by a factor of three so you need to select based on which is the right fit for your project's budget and purpose. In our firm we would insist that your primary moisture barrier be sloped to drain. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 139 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 05:25 pm:    I wasn't going to name names, but the Hydrotech system with pavers is a favorite of ours too. Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 272 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 05:26 pm:    My office generally tries very hard to avoid this kind of condition, but when it occurs we use Grace or Cetco products (such as swelltight) with protection boards, drain mats, etc... The key is to make sure the structural roof as well as the topping slabs/pavers BOTH slope, and if possible, to slow outward positively, AND provide deck drains for secondary drainage. That Hydrotech solution looks interesting. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 798 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 05:40 pm:    It wasn't a balcony, but a helicopter landing pad over occupied spaces, and I used Xypex in the top concrete mix; split slab with drainage between, plaza deck style, and internal drains. And then a finish of a UV and jet fuel resistant fluid applied coating - with the colors we needed per the FAA. We called it the belt, suspenders and rope approach. Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 05:40 pm:    Is the question solely about topside protection or (also) dewpoint/condensation at underside? David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 292 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 12:07 pm:    Ron Geren: If the balony-over-occupied-space is really considered a "roof", does the code provision for 1/4" per foot of slope apply? Thanks. Curt Norton, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: curtn Post Number: 114 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 12:15 pm:    I have seen the Teranap product used successfully on a couple projects, including Monona Terrace (a resurection of a FLW design) The system had insulation and a paver system on top. No mater what product is used, detail areas (pentrations, flashings, etc.) are the most important. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 104 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 12:17 pm:    David, Balony-over-occupied-space? Not certain about "balonies" but "Balconies" over conditioned occupied spaces are "DECKS" Decks over conditioned space are considered roofs, sloped to drain at 2%. Insulation may be above or below the deck floor structure. Concrete balconies are cantilivered, not over conditioned space, and are also sloped to drain at 2%. Similar to a concrete eyebrow for sun shading. Source: My training while at Morrison Hershfield. Wayne Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 675 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 12:45 pm:    David: I have to agree with Wayne. Although the IBC doesn't define what a "roof" is (just a "roof assembly"), the ordinarilly accepted meaning would apply as stated in Section 201.4. If the surface cannot be classified as an exterior wall per Section 1402.1, then I would consider it a roof, and, depending on the roof covering material, the appropriate slope would apply. In the case of decks, it would be a minimum of "one-fourth unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2-percent slope)." David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 293 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 05:40 pm:    Apologies for the typo; thanks for the correction and feedback.