Shower Waterproofing System

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Author Message David J. Wyatt Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_csi_ccs_ccca Post Number: 114 Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 08:55 am:    Does anyone have any experience in specifying Shluter's Tile Shower Waterproofing System? Does Schluter have a worthy competitor who makes an equivalent system that could be listed? Thanks. Dave Wyatt Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 586 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:08 am:    Dave Take a look at the thread a few weeks ago on WP for Roll-in Showers, Nathan Woods had a comment recommending the Schluter system, he seems to have experience using it. Personally I know that my clients love it, but it is very pricey and gets VE'd out whenever I specify it. Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC Senior Member Username: dale_roberts_csi Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:27 am:    The top three mortar manufactures all make a liquid applied membrane. Most contractors prefer this method because of the ease of installation. This will also give you a single source warranty for the complete installation (Waterproofing, Thinset mortars & Grout). Custom Building Products manufactures RedGard. Laticrete manufactures Hydroban and Mapei manufactures Mapelastic HPG. All products are IAMPO approved for shower pan liners. Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 271 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:54 am:    Are you refering to Schluter's "Kurdi" waterproofing system? If so, I have used it and it performed extremely well. We had the product on hand to demonstrate to contractor how to install it. Together they did the first one, and then the rest of the shower stalls went very quickly without issue. The prefab slopes and drain accessories are very useful and highly reccommended. I have also used liquid applied materials such as Mapelastic (Mapei) and RedGard (Custom), and they are an effective alternative, and I've never had any issues with either system. I like Custom's red tinted product because it very effectively demonstrates adequate coverage where applied. I would be hard pressed to choose one type of system over another, other than the Kurdi system is more inclusive and works with the floor drain very well. However, most contractors are unfamilar with it, and on a public job, might be more difficult to have installed. Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 260 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 02:25 pm:    Noble has a sheet product specifically made for showers. David J. Wyatt Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_csi_ccs_ccca Post Number: 116 Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 09:18 am:    Thanks for the information. Very helpful! William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 751 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 04:54 pm:    As an item, many really great products, especially the reinforced fluids like Laticrete, Mapie and others are not permitted in the IBC Plumbing code (which gets very specific about membranes in showers. Some of these products have submitted and obtained approval for use from IBC. However, be sure of your jurisdiction. Some refuse to consider the special permissions and require only the systems listed in the IBC. So, know the IBC, know the composition of the product itself, and if its not one of the few types IBC specifically lists, check with your local jurisdiction in advance. William John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 958 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 08:40 am:    William. Can you cite the IBC reference? William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 752 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 10:06 am:    John, No problem. Remember, it is the separately bound International Plumbing Code. The basic IBC building code does not contain this information. Section 417, Showers Its not long, and it gives not only detailed information about installation requirements, but also the specific materials. Which are: PVC Sheet Chlorinated Polyethylene (CPE) Sheet Lead Sheet Copper That's it, nothing else is permitted unless the manufacturer has a specific approval document permitting the exception. Some do, some don't. For instance, Laticrete only has it for 2006 code. So if you were using an earlier code, the jurisdiction many not permit it. Fairfax county here in Virginia, for a project using the 2002 code, they have refused to consider the exception. It also means that any use of it prior to the 2006 code exception is technically a code violation. The same for many other find membranes. And here is a good catch - I like to use the Nobel Seal sound isolation membrane under tile floors in highrise residential projects. It is also certified for use as a waterproofing membrane by the manufacturer, but its not one of the materials listed in the code. You have to use a different membrane in the shower. That also comes out of Fairfax. Some jurisdictions are real picky on this issue, and some don't pay any attention to it at all. But the plumbing code is very specific. William John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 959 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:28 am:    Thanks, William. This is another one of those areas where the code, by being completely prescriptive, imposes unreasonable (and perhaps unintended) restrictions. Dale Roberts CSI, CCPR, CTC Senior Member Username: dale_roberts_csi Post Number: 59 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 11:48 am:    In most cases, you can provide the ICC-ES reports and those are sufficient for approval. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 753 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 12:08 pm:    Dale, Yes, in most cases. But you really can't rely on them being accepted. And, in the case of some of them you may have a report that is based on a more recent code than the one the project is being built under. One would think, because the code may even be identical in those areas, that this is fine, but, as I note, some jurisdictions want to see a report specific to the version of the code the project is under. So, you need to be careful and check jurisdiction peculiarities. William