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Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: don_harris

Post Number: 199
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 09:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Four stories of wood framed modular construction with plywood sheathing over a concrete podium. There are three finishes; portland cement plaster, tile and thin brick. Can the tile and thin brick be thinset to the plaster base? Do we need to express the 12 foot o.c plaster control joints? (I assume we have to, the designers have other ideas.) Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec

Post Number: 582
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Don, I take it the plywood sheathing is needed for structure, otherwise I would strongly recommend using a non-paper gyp sheathing, anywhere in Florida, plywood has its problems; though the GC will probably propose OSB, money is always an issue. I went to school in G'ville for too many years, its a great town. The last project we did up there we specified a comb of Portland Cement plaster and Hardie siding, though I know brick is popular, VE tends to take precedence these days.
How are you going to deal with the tolerance problems with thinset? You don't leave the GC with many options; I guess the tile is an accent, so it may not matter.
Stucco is always a tough call in Florida, you should acquaint yourself with some articles written by FL experts like Jim Gulde or Joe Lstiburek, (Joe's book - Builder's Guide to Hot & Humid Climates is very good, I believe it is avail from Amazon or EEBA.org) stucco in Florida is different than anywhere else in the country...and unfortunately stucco failure is one of the major causes of mold lawsuits in Florida construction. Jim used to do advance stucco seminars for the FWCCA, I've sent several clients to them over the years, but I have not seen any announced this year. the building code is very specific on control joints, we usually spec according to the ASTM 926, even though ASTM 926 is difficult to follow in Florida and the Portland Cement Manual.
Joe authored a great field study on stucco work in central Florida after the string of hurricanes hit a few years ago, its very good reading, if you can't find it with google, I have PDF's of all this stuff in my data base. He wrote a article "Why Stucco Walls Got Wet" from that experience for JLC - very important to get a copy of that if you spec stucco in Florida.
BTW, never include the word "stucco" by itself in a spec, always refer to "Portland Cement Plaster" - the vultures love the word "stucco'.
Vivian Volz, RA, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: vivianvolz

Post Number: 111
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2008 - 03:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Don, I think I've just had to deal with the same thing. It sounds like you're asking whether the county-approved assembly for plaster can be used as if it were a setting bed for tile and thin brick, and whether the control joints in the prescribed system still apply when there's tile.

I took the approach that yes, setting tile in a full bed of mortar over lath was equivalent to the plaster in the Dade County approved assembly. I was unable to find any interpretation to justify our design. (I hope you are able to.)

We didn't address the control joint question, unfortunately; our installation is just a storefront in an existing mall, so we don't have large enough expanses to need joints other than the common-sense ones at L and T shaped areas of tile.

If anyone can direct Don to Florida approved assemblies with tile or thin brick, please post back to the forum. I need them, too.
Anonymous
 
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 08:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Vinyl Wall Covering specs, when shown Type II or Type I, I need to know what it means: is it the
weight, the width the coatings?
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman

Post Number: 682
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Thursday, September 18, 2008 - 09:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

What does vinyl wall coverings have to do with exterior finishes in Florida?
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski

Post Number: 799
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Friday, September 19, 2008 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/FEDMIL/cccw408d.pdf is the document that explains Types I, II and III (basically light duty, medium duty and heavy duty).

Vinyl Wall coverings can act as vapor retarders.

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