| Author |
Message |
Ron Beard CCS
Senior Member
Username: rm_beard_ccs
Post Number: 235
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 11:19 am: |    |
Situation: I have a client who needs a custom 3'x7', 1-hour fire-rated, four panel exterior wood door to comply with the historic requirements of the local [old town Alexandria, Virginia] AHJ. Before going back for an exemption, I am trying to get the final word as to whether this can be found somewhere. Any help would be appreciated. |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 235
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 11:35 am: | |
Various companies (eg Maiman) make fire-rated stile and rail, raised-panel wood doors. They have mineral cores. You'd need to check with them to see whether they're suitable for exterior use. |
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 580
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 11:41 am: | |
Unless the door is very close to a property line (< 10 ft.> the likelihood that an exterior door needs protection is minimal. What are the conditions requiring the fire-rating? |
Ron Beard CCS
Senior Member
Username: rm_beard_ccs
Post Number: 236
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 01:39 pm: | |
The door is 5'3" from the property line. |
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 581
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 02:13 pm: | |
Hmmm.
Is this under the IBC? If so, then 10% of the wall area per story may have unprotected openings. If the building is sprinklered, then the permitted area may be increased to 25%.
Also, does the doorway face a street or alley? If so, you can add half the width to the 5'-3" distance, and the percentages above would need to be modified.
In any case, if none of the above applies, typically an opening in a 1-hour fire-resistive exterior wall only needs to be 3/4-hour rated.
If you wish, you can send me a PDF of the plan and elevation to ron@specsandcodes.com and I'll take a quick look at it for you. I'll also need to know the building construction type and occupancy. |
Michael D Chambers FAIA FCSI
Senior Member
Username: sbamdc
Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2007 - 07:51 pm: | |
Consider Harring Doors, they make up to 60 minute style and rail wwod doors. I have been to the factory. Good products.
http://www.harringdoors.com/ |
Ron Beard CCS
Senior Member
Username: rm_beard_ccs
Post Number: 237
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 12:31 pm: | |
It has been definitely determined that the door needs to be rated [thanks for your responses and offer Ronald]. Also, after talking to wood door mfrs [thanks Dave and Michael], the materials required in a rated exterior wood door [even down to a 20-minute door] are not warrantable. So it appears metal is our only choice.
So the next problem is we haven't been able to find a metal door manufacturer who makes a 7' high, four panel, rated door. Does anyone have a suggested source? Thanks |
Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: don_harris
Post Number: 164
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 01:19 pm: | |
Try Jeld-Wen. They make a fiberglass door that looks like wood. They have many panel configurations. Spent some time with them at their booth in Baltimore. It was a nice looking product. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 690
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 01:54 pm: | |
Ron,
Only a very few wood door manufacturers will warrant any exterior wood doors, and then it is often only for a 2 to 3 year period. And most of them even have a requirement that the door is 'covered'. That is, that there is some porch, canopy or projection overhead to protect the door.
That is for any non-rated door.
Rated wood doors, I know of none that will warrant the door for any length of time.
So this is not unusual. If you want or require wood for the construction, you have to face the realities of the material.
Does this mean that the door is going to have to be replaced frequently? No, not if you maintain and care for the door. There are many wood exterior doors around the country that have been up for many years, some historic buildings for hundreds of years and the construction and glues they had then are no where near what is available today.
Look at all the wood boats...or just the wood that is on boats. You have to care for it, not just abandon it in place.
Your solution of going to a pressed metal door is like going to the far end of the quality spectrum. The pressed metal doors are all much thinner skinned than typical hollow metal. Their cores vary, and some actually contain wood (so, you get hidden rot). There are a few that have good construction, but you are going to get only what you get.
And the warranty, it will still be minimal.
Remember the discussions about warranties - their principal use is to protect the manufacturer, not the buyer.
Turn to your hollow metal spec section? Do you specify a warranty for hollow metal doors and frames? I don't, many don't. I don't consider it a value to the owner, and I have never had in 30+ years any owner ever ask why I don't.
If you are willing to put an unwarranted hollow metal door there, why not an unwarranted wood door?
One answer is the delicacy of the fabrication of wood - but I have seen quality hollow metal doors rusted out and failing after only a few years of neglect.
Another answer might be the delicacy of the finish - but likely this door is going to be painted, and frankly the quality of paint products is just about equivalent for both wood and metal. In many cases, the high performance coatings you might want on an exterior hollow metal door can be applied to the wood door and offer the same protection.
And that brings us round full circle - its all about the finish and the maintenance. Ignore the maintenance and finish of any item and it will die outside.
One of the best examples I remember seeing of exterior wood was the historic Providence Rhode Island Railway Station. It actually had stile and rail exterior wood storefront/entrance. 2 stories high, lots of glass, and all the wood was natural finished. It had no overhang (when I saw it) so it was totally unprotected. It was part of the original construction.
There were several of these entrances to the building. One of them was immaculate, a primary high visibility entrance. Another that went out from the baggage area that was essentially a service entrance was in total disrepair, finish totally gone, major dry rot, nothing capable of being salvaged.
Just some points of view to consider.
William |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wyancey
Post Number: 393
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2007 - 03:58 pm: | |
Ron,
Dimension Millworks: http://www.dimensionmillworks.com/Pages/ProductLine.aspx?id=1
Attractive and elaborate designs can be manufactured with modification to the inner construction to meet specific fire ratings. Special woods such as Red Oak, Mahogany, Maple, White Oak, Birch, Mesquite, Walnut are readily available with many other preium hardwoods available on request.
Wayne |
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