Metallic Waterproofing

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Author Message Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 92 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 03:58 pm:    A client has asked me to use metallic waterproofing (IE Euclid's IRON WATERPELLER) at below grade elevator pits. According to him, this is a "standard" product, but I have never used it. I am in the Southwest, the project is in Texas, so maybe it is a "standard" product in Texas. Anyway, any input? pros, cons etc.? William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 649 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 04:06 pm:    Robin, Lets not say its 'standard', but calling it traditional or conventional might be more appropriate. Its fairly commonly used. Its pretty cheap. It goes on the inside of the pit so you have to resize our pit to accomodate it. It will add apprximately 1-1/2 inches to the thickness of the pit bottom, and it will go on 3/4 inch thick at the pit walls. I don't like to use it anymore, and I also stay away from the crystaline type products. I put a true membrane under and around the pit and about 6 feet or so from the pit wall out under the slab. But if the Owner wants to take a credit on it, we show our pit sized accordingl to accomodate the metallic waterproofing. Though for the past several years, no one has taken the credit. William Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wyancey Post Number: 300 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 04:45 pm:    Robin, I do not have experience with Euclid's product but an up and coming favorite of developers in Seattle is a mix additive called Everdure Caltite. 1. Material: Reactive hydrophobic pore-blocking ingredient. 2. Type: Aqueous emulsion of hydrophobic materials and polymers, composed of aliphatic fatty acids. Manufacturer: Glacier Northwest, Inc.; 5975 East Marginal Way South, Seattle, WA 98134; Telephone: (206) 764-3000, Fax: (206) 764-3012; website: www.glaciernw.com It is used in CIP planter boxes, vehicular traffic entrance/exit ramps to below grade parking garages, and more. In most other projects we specify Cetco Voltex DS for below grade vertical applications and under elevator pits same as William described. Wayne Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 461 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 05:33 pm:    I've used the metallic stuff -- it used to be the standard used by the Navy in Western Washington. the advantage of it is two fold: 1) its put on the negative side (ie, INSIDE the pit) so you don't have to over-excavate and then backfill. You do, however, have to excavate enough to accomodate the 1" or so thickness. 2) and it can be walked on, unless the sticky type membranes. I personally think the Caltite is smoke and mirrors and it will not accommodate a big crack in the substrate, just those teensy stress cracks. the metallic stuff is thick enough that it pretty much takes care of itself once installed. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 462 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 05:36 pm:    oops.. I mispoke. the 2) above should say "it can be walked on, unlike the sticky membranes". the problem with a lot of the stretchy things is that you can't walk on them if you need to do maintenance, so they have to be protected by boards or put on the positive side (the water side) of the pit. the metallic oxide is pretty bullet proof and its tough to really mess up. Anonymous   Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 05:48 pm:    Cyrstalline waterproofing. Xypex. Kryton. Permaquik. Bridges cracks. Negative side application OR admixture in concrete. Inexpensive. Idoit proof. Warranted. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 464 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 07:12 pm:    doesn't bridge more than 1/16" crack and you can't walk on it. its a secondary application at best. Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: markgilligan Post Number: 134 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 07:38 pm:    One of the products listed, Xypex is also used as a concrete add mixture. Admittedly the products cannot bridge thick cracks but if the concrete is well reinforced the cracks should be small. By itself the product may be appropriate for situations where there is no positive head of water. Where there is significant water pressure Xypex can supplement a conventional waterproofing system. Harold S. Woolard Senior Member Username: harold_woolard Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 09:57 pm:    Robin, email me and I can give you a proven system that works for "Elevator Pits", that is used quite a bit in the Houston market. hswool@consolidated.net Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 197 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, March 05, 2007 - 10:57 am:    Harold, I generally spec the crystalline material, when we can't overexcavate for the pits. I would be interested in your proven system as well. I am in So. Calif. William, I would be interested in knowing why you don't use the crystalline products. Especially where it is not always possible to put the waterproofing on the outside of the pit, Robin, I have a spec on the crystalline material if you are interested. My e-mail is rmatteo@tbparchitecture.com Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2007 - 07:20 pm:    I encourage those that are not familiar with crystalline WP to do a little research on this product. I have no idea why Anne states that it cannot be walked on. Of course it can. This WP is a chemical that "charges" the concrete in a negative side application - the slurry mix is slathered onto the substrate and the chemical immediately begins its journey into the concrete. In the presence of moisture, the chemical "grows" in the form of crystalline matrix toward the water source (into the little fissures) and plugs the holes. No waterproofing system will claim to bridge cracks more than a certain width. The Caltite stuff doesn't have ANY crack bridging ability, and is often repaired with crystalline WP when it does leak. Kryton offers a good watertight warranty for use of their crystalline WP products as a primary WP. Again, I am perplexed at Anne's statement that this product is for secondary applications, at best. Nonsense. I have been specifying this product for nearly a decade now, and not just for elevator pits. It's a slick solution for many applications. Disclaimer: I am a full time spec writer for a large A/E firm - and do not own stock in any WP companies! Kenneth C. Crocco Senior Member Username: kcrocco Post Number: 86 Registered: 04-2003 Posted on Thursday, March 08, 2007 - 01:03 pm:    I have specified the crystalline wp materials. Bridging moving cracks is one thing; filling in across gaps and openings is another. I am also a bee keeper's helper. Bees will fill gaps with wax. They will "bridge" any gap in the hive that is less than a fixed dimension (5/16 inch for your western bees; less for chicago bees.) This is called "Bee space". We need to keep our gaps larger than "bee space" or the bees will glue our hive parts together with wax. Crystalline wp will "bridge" (fill in) cracks and pores by growing. But, is this actually bridging cracks? I think not. We don't expect moving cracks to occur in certain construction. Bridging cracks by spanning the crack is a different action by bridging cracks by growing across the crack.