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Author Message Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 172 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 02:13 pm:    I've never had this problem before, but I now have a glazing contractor demanding the spec for the little white dots. I can't find a product ANYWHERE. Help! Requirements below: Smoke control window bug: 1. 2 inches in diameter 2. White in color 3. Visible from exterior 4. Can't wash off 5. Applied to tempered glass 6. Placed in the lower 1/3 of the window Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wyancey Post Number: 211 Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 02:34 pm:    Marc, Try LETRA-SIGN from the company that produced Letraset. Also contact Equity Property Management. We had red dots on the windows at Plaza Center in Bellevue. Wayne Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 156 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 05:17 pm:    I've always believed in the saying "The only dumb question is the one you don't ask." So here goes: "What the H#@% are you guys talking about? Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 173 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 05:40 pm:    There are no stupid questions, only inquisitive idiots. These dots are on the face of windows that the fire department can punch out to allow smoke out and or them in. The windows are tempered vs generic windows that don't otherwise need to be tempered. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 174 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 05:46 pm:    Hey Ron, I WAS only joking. Most of my philosophy on life comes from “The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy” or www.despair.com Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 157 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 05:58 pm:    Oh. So that is the dot on my head that people always stick a note on that says "Hit here!" Anonymous   Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 08:41 am:    From another inquisitve idiot: Is this a model code provision, or a local AHJ issue? If in the IBC or UBC, a cross reference to the code provision would be most helpful, and appreciated. Thanks. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 177 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 08:59 am:    For high-rise buildings in Washington DC, we used to specify what we called "fire department labels" which were an etched or sandblasted logo on the #2 surface of insulating glass units that were used for fire fighter access. However we have not done this for years. My notes show that this was not required under the 1996 BOCA code (which was the code in DC prior to IBC 2000), but that NFPA 101 does require it. I don't know if that is still the case. We have not specified this for buildings designed under the IBC. Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 358 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 09:08 am:    The IBC does not require it. Since I don't use the NFPA 101 (2003) much, I had to look there, but couldn't find a similar requirement. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 407 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:08 pm:    in our area (Seattle) they require the dots. I'm with Marc -- I've never specified them, but they simply come under the line of "provide designation as required by local code authorities for fire access." (we of course show their locations on the drawings so that they are all in EXACTLY the same place). this is the first time I've ever heard of a contractor asking for what the product is, and I'm sure Marc has all kinds of stories he can tell you about that project... Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 450 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:25 pm:    Might this product be available through the local fire department? I remember having a similar decal (that never washed off - I finally scraped them off) on the windows where my kids slept. They were red circles and provided by the fire department. Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Intermediate Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 02, 2006 - 12:56 pm:    I don't understand why you would have to show the firefighters which windows they can break. Jo Drummond, FCSI Senior Member Username: jod Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 02:19 pm:    In some areas where I have worked, the fire department access windows are tempered glass, even if the adjoining, otherwise identical windows are not. Thus the identifiers tell the firemen which windows will break without producing shards. I think the requirement is by the local fire departments, rather than the code in general. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 175 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 02:22 pm:    Well, one of the intern architects found some vinyl dots that won't come off and won't kill the warranty. When I get the cutsheet I'll post the name of the product. What a pain! Butch Rowe (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, November 13, 2006 - 03:25 pm:    California Building Code Section 403.20 allows the use of fixed tempered glass for smoke ventilation in high-rise buildings if the windows "...are clearly identified as required bt the enforcing agency. The fire department can break out a panel without fear of large shards of glass falling on personnel or hoses below. Ken Moore, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: kjmoore Post Number: 9 Registered: 06-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 02:32 am:    Side Bar Question: A couple of years ago my wife and I attended a CSI Chapter meeting on blast resistant glazing. On way home she asked what happens when a fireperson on a ladder takes his ax and tries to break a blast resistant glass in a curtain wall, will the ax bounce back at him? Any experience on this. Ellis C. Whitby, AIA, PE, CSI, LEED Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 09:28 am:    Some years ago I witnessed a fireman attempt to break a window in a vacant ground floor shop in a downtown Washington DC office building in order to provide ventilation during a fire. Unfortunately the shop had previously been renovated for an upscale jewelry store and the street windows were all entry resistant glazing. The fireman was using a sedge hammer (not an axe), but the sledge did indeed “bounce back”. The window was “butt glazed”, even the exterior corner where the fireman tried to break the glass, but the glazing did not break. The fireman tried several times and finally gave up: they got ventilation elsewhere (as I recall, the building manager unlocked the interior doors of the shops and the firemen opened the exterior doors from the interior). I checked the window afterwards and all that could be seen was a “chip” out the outside edge of the glazing at the corner. Impressive strength to say the least. I presume that blast resistant glazing would have similar capabilities, especially since the edges have to be “framed” to provide full blast resistance (i.e., no butt glazing). I do recall that entry resistant, bullet resistant and blast resistant all have different requirements and characteristics, but do not know the details (I am not a glazing expert by any definition).