| Author |
Message |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 739
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 11, 2018 - 02:49 pm: |    |
Our firm is a little under 100 people, and this year our Newforma renewal is more expensive than our Autodesk license, which is crazy. There's simply no justification for an archival system to cost more than our production tools.
Currently, we use Newforma for email management, archiving sent and received emails per project, and for linking those emails to logged RFI's, Submittals, Change Orders, Issues, etc... We use the Reason codes in the RFI and Change Orders to track value, reduce risk, etc... We also use InfoExchange extensively for transmittal of documents and drawings. For the above listed services, Newforma works well, though its not really ever been significantly updated in the past 10-12 years and the program itself is slow and a bit cumbersome. However, we'd gladly continue using it, but only at a 1/3rd of the current cost, not double as they seem to be asking.
So what's new out there? I see that Primavera has purchased SubmittalExchange, but does not appear to have improved it much, or even updated it from Java to something faster. Nor does it have any capacity for email tracking, linking, archiving, etc... It also doesn't have Reason codes.
So what else is out there? What are you using in your firm? Are there SharePoint plugins that will mimic or replicate Newforma functionalities?
Here are some links to similar discussions here on 4Specs from a few years back, but nothing current:
- http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/2046/7186.html?1399912527
- http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/2046/7359.html?1411064126
- http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/2046/7585.html?1427730944
- http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/430/4037.html?1363915676 |
Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED
Senior Member
Username: ecwhitby
Post Number: 483
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2019 - 10:17 am: | |
Nathan;
What did you decide to use? Did you ever get any feedback? |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 787
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2019 - 12:29 pm: | |
Sadly, I did not receive any feedback, though I am still very curious what others are using.
We took a very hard look at TonicDM (https://www.tonicdm.com/), which has great potential but isn't quite there yet, and the development team didn't seem too keen on adding a couple mission critical features that we need to facilitate adoption.
PlanGrid is another interesting product, but solves the wrong problem and was not a good fit for our needs (also frightfully expensive).
Most of my contractors are using Procore, but again, its not geared toward the typical Architecture firm's needs, which is a big missed opportunity I think, but contractors have the money, so hard to fault them in their choice of target markets
Meanwhile, Newforma kicked themselves in the ass, slimmed down their organization and then started investing in development again. Its still disproportionately expensive for what it does, but its beginning to do more, and they are building connectors to other packages like Bluebeam Studio and Procore. They also got a lot of pushback on pricing and have worked with us a little bit to keep us in the fold for now.
I think Procore is a lost cause, but I look forward to TonicDM building up to what we need and Newforma trimming down what we don't need. In a few years, we might have real options! |
Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED
Senior Member
Username: ecwhitby
Post Number: 485
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2019 - 03:00 pm: | |
I worked on Newforma at a past firm, and they had purchased the Contract Management module for their Construction Phase work: That module is complex to say the least. I am now at another firm and looking for software for CCA. Apparently Trimble Projectsight is the replacement for ProLog. If I can, I plan to get some "trial runs" on several different software packages before we make a decision. Obviously not going to happen overnight. |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 789
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2019 - 03:44 pm: | |
Please post your findings here!
FWIW, Newforma no longer uses the module approach, its all or nothing, which is one reason the fee increase was so steep, you now need to “buy” features you don't need. However, i do think their RFI & Submittal process is best in class, just built on really old and slow code language.
My experience in Prolog was that it was very contractor focused, and the Architect only used about 5% of the tools. |
Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED
Senior Member
Username: ecwhitby
Post Number: 486
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2019 - 05:19 pm: | |
I have seen a lot of "construction phase" oriented software through the years: most is either directed to the Contractor or the Owner. It also depends upon how the entity that purchased the software set it up: which pieces were purchased, and what is visible, and available to the users who do not own the software. Obviously AE firms have different needs than Owners or Contractors, and those needs varies widely based on the size of the firms and the type and size of the projects. |
Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: don_harris
Post Number: 328
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2019 - 10:35 am: | |
This is information only. Not trying to recommend or sell anything, because we don't have enough experience with it yet. My firm switched from Newforma to Deltek PIM. So far it seems to be a good move, but there is a fairly steep learning curve. The people that are using it a lot seem to generally like it. But, like I said, not a recommendation. It does seem to be an alternative worth investigating. One of the prime movers in the decision was that it is much more economical than Newforma. |
Curt Norton, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: curtn
Post Number: 251
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2020 - 08:30 am: | |
I was looking at Newforma for our firm. I agree that they have some great features for processing submittals and RFIs. The email archival is also compelling, but the set up cost and the old technology seem like the wrong move. I was impressed with Ingenious IO. It is a simple, nimble could package. It doesn't do email archival, but for CCA it has potential. I am looking very hard at BIM360 as well. It too is geared toward contractors, but based on our trial, it seems like it would work. With the PlanGrid acquisition, they are making improvements on a weekly basis and offer great workflow opportunities throughout the project life.
I had one recommendation for email archival, but haven't had a chance to review it. https://www.techhit.com/messagesave/ |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 794
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2020 - 01:02 pm: | |
Curt, thanks for those links. Both were new to me. I am digging into OpenCA now, it does seem pretty interesting: https://www.openca.io/ |
Curt Norton, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: curtn
Post Number: 252
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 19, 2020 - 04:18 pm: | |
OpenCA was in development when we met with them. It is key to this system working for an AE. Without it, the contractor would need their own license. |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 854
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2022 - 08:38 pm: | |
A quick update to this. We tested OpenCA and TonicDM, but neither compete with Newforma very effectively. Newforma has woken up a bit from its 10 year long development hiatus, and has started to roll out some improvements, such as a new (though already very dated) GUI, and some plugins and connectors to current software such as Procore, though their connectors are somewhat cumbersome and require a very expensive Bluebeam Studio Enterprise license (which is different from the Bluebeam PDF software license). AutoDesk has been doing some interesting things with PlanGrid and rolling it into "Autodesk Construction Cloud", but its still not the same in doing what Newforma almost does well. So the hunt continues, and the market is still wide open for a worthy Newforma competitor. The bar is low. |
Abbey K (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2022 - 03:59 pm: | |
I see that this thread is still active and I wanted to jump in to speak up about ProjectReady (https://www.project-ready.com). If you're looking for a true Newforma compete that helps you sync content across platforms like Procore and BIM 360, while also integrating to Bluebeam, ACC, PlanGrid, and more; deploys cross-platform automation; and allows you to drive even greater value from your existing tech investments (including M365) then check it out. |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 873
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2022 - 06:17 pm: | |
Abbey, thank you for posting. I reviewed your website, and was left baffled and confused. Who is your target audience? You're entire website was just marking jargon and word salad. Not one specific element was shown that would compel me to invest more time following up on this. Not even a single screen shot! Nothing indicates how it differentiates from any other competitor, and it never really states what it can do.
For your use and for any other software firm looking to compete with Newforma, what we need is simple:
- Tie and archive relevant emails to key documents and people
- track document status (RFI's, Submittals, Change Orders, Action items, etc...)
- Share files easily and with accountablity
- Establish reason codes for all cost control issues (including RFI's)
- Run reports with robust filters and a high degree of granularity.
- Allow custom workflows to include multiple parties, such as the Owner, CM, AHJ, GC, Sub, IOR, and A/E teams
There are a million ways to improve upon what Newforma does, but if you don't do these core things, you aren't playing in the same sandbox. |
Abbey K (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2022 - 12:05 pm: | |
Thank you for your response, Nathan. Also, thank you for your critique of the website. I found it to be honest and valuable.
Regarding the points you outlined and what you are looking for from a solution, ProjectReady addresses each one and more. (Website composition aside, I hope you will find the following valuable.)
DOES PROJECTREADY ...
- Tie and archive relevant emails to key documents and people
-- YES!
--- ProjectReady's native integration allows users to tie and archive relevant emails to the project, register content, assign people to tasks, manage workflow, add/associate master metadata, easily search in context, and record all information transactions to reduce risk across the project. Resources you might find valuable include:
---- [VIDEO] How To Make Email Actionable: https://vimeo.com/394098579/937ea52f00
---- [WHITEPAPER] How To Add Email To The Project Record: https://project-ready.com/home/white-paper-how-to-add-email-to-the-project-record/
- track document status (RFI's, Submittals, Change Orders, Action items, etc...)
-- YES!
--- The dashboard view brings in information from the systems being used across the project, including Procore, BIM 360, ACC, etc., and allows you to track document status across the project. And for those looking for even more insight into the status of your documents, ProjectReady seamlessly integrates PowerBI in the context of project information. Resources you might find valuable include:
---- [VIDEO] A Single Pane Of Glass For Managing Project Information https://vimeo.com/552842879/b9f33b2ace
---- [VIDEO] Reporting And Power BI Integration With ProjectReady https://vimeo.com/552819859/664c56fea3
- Share files easily and with accountability
-- YES!
--- From the moment your project is built, users gain the peace of mind of knowing that the right people have the right access to the right information at the right time. Period. Additionally, ProjectReady has made it easier than ever to share files from a range of sources across team members while building accountability into the process.
---- [VIDEO] Set-Up & Secure https://vimeo.com/667386303/e53317c92b
---- [VIDEO] The Directory Overview https://vimeo.com/387032160/cf0616f874
---- [VIDEO] Introducing the Content Cart ;) https://vimeo.com/670248054/c0aced5eb7?ts=385000
- Establish reason codes for all cost control issues (including RFI's)
-- YES!
--- From reason codes to scheduling and budget concerns, ProjectReady pulls in all the information project managers are looking for to gain the insight and reasoning needed for RFIs and more - across internal and external team members. For your reference, I've already pointed to resources that should provide more context to this claim.
- Run reports with robust filters and a high degree of granularity.
-- YES!
--- In addition to ProjectReady's native functionality, and integration with PowerBI and Power Apps, users are able to generate highly detailed reports with the ability to dig in at a highly granular level. Additionally, users are able to generate complex reports instantly for greater project visibility at all times.
- Allow custom workflows to include multiple parties, such as the Owner, CM, AHJ, GC, Sub, IOR, and A/E teams
-- YES!
--- As mentioned previously, and shown in the resources already shared, ProjectReady brings all project members together on a project and deploys workflows across all members of the team - from owners, to GCs, subs, etc. Not only can users establish roles at the onset of the project, as team members change, new users can always be added or subtracted both individually and in bulk.
Again, thank you for your response and allowing me the opportunity to address how ProjectReady can take on these key challenges. I would certainly welcome further conversation and would invite you to join the ProjectReady team for a demonstration.
You can reach out to me at akanellakis@project-ready.com.
Let's talk! |
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 875
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2022 - 09:22 pm: | |
Alright Abbey. You have officially piqued my interest. Those were good videos' demonstrating a pretty well thought and robust system. I'm still unsure how it competes against Newforma, but it certainly does some interesting things. I have two questions for you prior to setting up a meeting (will help me fine tune my invite internally). These videos talk a lot about BIM360, I am assuming you've migrated those capabilities to ACC (Autodesk Construction Cloud)? Final question, is Deltek one of the apps you connect too for surfacing project financial data? |
Abbey K (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2022 - 09:55 am: | |
Thanks for being so prompt in your response, Nathan. And, again, bringing some good questions to the table.
Once again, I bring nothing but positive responses.
YES! ProjectReady has migrated its capabilities to include integration with ACC. (Side Note: The development team is working on some really exciting and powerful new integrations as we speak. Unfortunately, I'm not at liberty to spill the beans just yet! As soon as it's released, I will post about it hear to make everybody aware. ;)
And, finally ...
YES! Thanks to the SQL connector, ProjectReady is able to connect to Deltek. Visibility and transparency is critical for collaboration and timely decision making (as you already know). To have a full, robust view of a project, your chosen system must be able to pull the appropriate financial information wherever it resides. ProjectReady absolutely scratches this itch.
Let me know if there is any other answers or clarification I can provide!
Best,
~abbey |
Nathan Woods, RA, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 927
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2024 - 07:12 pm: | |
Just an update for this thread. In July of last year our Newforma subscription was up for renewal, and again, prices had increased significantly. We tried to negotiate with Newforma but they were unwilling to work with us in any meaningful way. So I pulled the plug and we switched over the weekend to TonicDM. It was a bit like ripping the Band-Aid off, painful but ultimately good. Tonic was 1/3rd of the price, and granted, its half the program Newforma is, but what it does, it does much better than Newforma does. In addition to outright subscription cost savings, it offloads your email "off premise" or "offprim", utilizing the cloud based functionality of Microsoft 365 to full extent, so infrastructure costs such as server space, back up and archives, and IT staff are greatly minimized, representing another signfiicant cost savings.
One unanticipated, but very welcome benefit, was that my staff enjoyed using Tonic! I had maybe 50% success ratio with Newforma, but a much higher utilization ratio with Tonic, probably over 90% or higher. Its just easier to use, and much, much faster performing.
One of the major improvements that Tonic made that allowed me to consider it, was that they added Reason Codes to the RFI's, and their Procore connectivity is awesome.
I ended up leaving Taylor after a long time there, and where I am now they don't use anything but OneDrive and whatever creative solution you can invent, so I am going through withdrawl. I didn't get to use Tonic for long, but I really liked it. |
Chris Caron (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2024 - 10:59 am: | |
@NWOODS
I'm the IT Manager at an Architectural firm. We've been using Newforma for 7 years and, like you, have found it increasingly difficult to justify its cost. We are looking to move to TonicDM. Can you tell me more about the transition? Can you access your archived Newforma data? TonicDM offers CA transfer now. Were you able to take advantage of this option? If so, how did it go?
Thanks in advance for answering my many questions and for any advice you can offer.
Chris |
Nathan Woods, RA, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 930
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2024 - 02:13 pm: | |
Chris, get with your Tonic rep and have them set up a conference call with me and my (previous) IT team. We did the same before we pulled the trigger and found that the option to interview others invaluable, and we have returned the favor and hosted interviews with new candidates such as yourself.
Yes, our firm (my old firm) I think was the beta for their transfer/import process, and after a few bugs got sorted, it worked really well, though it does take time...like a few months, to migrate all the past projects over. Active projects were migrated in two stages. All the emails migrated over in one long weekend, and then over the following week or two the RFI's and Submittals's migrated over, on the active projects. Then over time we backfilled the past projects into the Tonic system.
Happy to share our experiences in a Teams call. |
Chris Caron (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2024 - 05:09 pm: | |
That would be great! If I could get contact info? Please email me directly. Meanwhile I'll broach the subject with TonicDM.
I appreciate the help. |
Nathan Woods, RA, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods
Post Number: 931
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 02, 2024 - 05:46 pm: | |
Trust me, Tonic knows it. Just ask them to set it up. Ask for Nathan & Nishel from Taylor |
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