PDFs vs Word documents

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Author Message Randall A Chapple, AIA, SE, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: rachapple Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 03:44 pm:    I have noticed that on projects that I output in PDF I have the following problem. I do the table of contents and set the page numbers for each section and then create PDFs for all the files. When I check the number of pages in the PDFs the print driver has shortened the page count in a few of the documents so the table of contents is no longer correct. Has any one else encountered this and is there a solution? Nathan Woods, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: nwoods Post Number: 282 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 03:52 pm:    I've not knowingly encountered that. The only potential thing that I can think might be print scaling? Are you settings for 100% scale and specifically chosen for Letter sized paper for both hard copy and PDF print drivers? Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 234 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 04:11 pm:    I have seen PDF printing do some wierd things. As another suggestion, I deleted page numbers from my TOC's about 3 years ago - saves alot of time and coordination issues and not one person has ever commented or seems to miss them. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 178 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 04:41 pm:    We avoid page counts on TOC's in our firm for this same reason. The only time we use is when required by the agency or AHJ, and the sections must be manually verified. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 156 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 05:54 pm:    We avoid page counts unless it is a client driven requirement. Page counts might have been perfectly fine when each page of a spec was hand typed, but modern delivery and production methods mean that the page count can change for totally innocent reasons. I haven't tried it for a few years, but I used to get different page counts merely by sending my document to various different lazer printers here in our offices (I have access to at least 12). Richard Howard, AIA CSI CCS LEED-AP Senior Member Username: rick_howard Post Number: 198 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 09:13 am:    The following information from Adobe explains why the Portable Document Format or PDF, which is built on Postscript language, may differ from printed output from a printer using PCL. PCL Printer Control Language or PCL is a common printing language used widely by many different printer manufacturers. PCL is supported by many different Operating Systems which allows for the same printer to work in many different environments. PCL is device dependent. This means that the drivers for this language utilize the printer hardware for creating some of the printed data, usually graphics data such as fill areas, underlines or fonts. This allows the computer to process the print job quickly and efficiently. The printer is then responsible to complete the creation and processing of page data. Individual printers may perform these tasks differently giving you a slightly different output. Pros: Fast print processing. Widely supported in many different Operating System platforms. Cons: The same print job on two different printers may vary slightly. Quality of graphics is dependent on the print device. Not supported in most Macintosh environments Postscript Postscript language or PS is a common printing language also used widely by many different printer manufacturers. It is used heavily in Macintosh platforms and for graphic applications in several platforms. Unlike PCL, Postscript is device independent. This means that the Postscript language creates all of the print data and does not rely on the printer for print data. This allows the output to be consistent when printed on more than one type of printer or print device. Specifically, the graphic objects will be consistent and in some cases of higher quality than PCL. Pros: Graphical objects are often more detailed The same print file should print identically on two or more different print devices. (This most beneficial when used for printing drafts on one printer then sending out to a printing company for production) Cons: Print processing can be slow Not found in as many platforms as PCL Print file and memory requirements are larger. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 328 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 02:59 pm:    Another reason to not list page count in the table of contents! I have tried half a dozen pdf creators. Some have produced files that are close to the original, but none of them has been exact. Some shrink the page, and some change the page count. We issue only pdfs, so I am concerned only about those that shrink the text. Richard Howard, AIA CSI CCS LEED-AP Senior Member Username: rick_howard Post Number: 199 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 03:26 pm:    A Federal agency known for their exacting standards sent me a PDF to include in my project manual that says "PAGE 28 of 27". If they can't figure out how to get a PDF page count right, I don't stand a chance. Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 218 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 09:09 am:    I also do not use page numbers in the TOC. I have only rarely had problems printing to PDF, either with Adobe or MasterWorks. I think the issue is improper formatting of the Word document. Documents produced using MasterSpec styles, or anyone's styles, that tend to hold their place on pages seem to work. It is Word documents that are not formatted using styles that cause PDF printing issues. They use spaces and tabs to locate the text and hard returns to make page breaks. I believe the PDF printing software(s) have problems interpreting this type of document and hence, they make somewhat random decisions regarding text location and page breaks. I believe proper formatting, using styles, is imperative to an accurate PDF printing.