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Liz O'Sullivan
Senior Member
Username: liz_osullivan

Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2011
Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 01:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I am wrapping up DD on a project, and just found out that the Revit model will be given to the Contractor during construction. My architect-client has another firm doing the Revit model.

I haven't used Revit myself, and haven't worked on a project where the model has been given to the Contractor, so I am really ignorant about what could happen.

1. What info can a Contractor pull out of a Revit model?

2. What should I tell my client about how the model needs to coordinate with the specs that I'm preparing?

My architect-client is totally new to Revit, too, so I think this hasn't been thought through by anyone.
Julie Cox Root, AIA
Senior Member
Username: julie_root

Post Number: 97
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 01:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

After much panic and concern we have been throught this several times now.

Unless your contract is a true IPD, we have found the key is the media release form that Architects are use to having the contractor sign for the use of CAD drawings works well as long as it is modified for the Revit model.

Mostly our contractors are using our Revit models to start their coordination models in another program - usually Navisworks.

Nothing really changes from the contractors responsiblity to provide accurate, meaningful and coordinated shop drawings for review. I would say we have had a hard time to get the contractor to go back to 2D for our MEP consultants and to give specific dimensions because the Naviswork model gives them another sense of confidence that things are going to fit (or not).

I will say that it is all worth the pain. We are seeing a lot of coordination happening sooner than later that is allowing for more accurate shop work to be done then sent to the site all ready for the last installation....it is all quite beautiful.
Liz O'Sullivan
Senior Member
Username: liz_osullivan

Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2011

Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 01:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Thanks, Julie.

The project is a public project that is to be hard bid - we don't know yet if GCs will be prequalified or not.

I haven't issued any specs yet, so I have no idea what's getting put into the model. (I only have product selections from the architect on about 6 products.)

This could be quite interesting.
Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP
Senior Member
Username: ecwhitby

Post Number: 125
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 02:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

“Interesting” like a dinner with an erudite Nobel Prize winner, or “interesting” like a visit for the Spanish Inquisition?
Liz O'Sullivan
Senior Member
Username: liz_osullivan

Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2011

Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 02:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I'm not sure yet, Ellis.
Julie Cox Root, AIA
Senior Member
Username: julie_root

Post Number: 98
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, December 09, 2011 - 02:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Another thought for the specifications is that we have been implimenting a BIM protocol manual for each of our projects. This manual outlines what we expect everyone to draw in the model starting with our consultants, but when we have the contractor come on board (ususally in SD or DD for us) we then add a section about their responsiblities. The manual becames a reference to what things we model at what level of detail, and what we do not model so that contractors can understand. We outline items that maybe design/build and/or need for coordination documents from the contractor. Essential it outlines how everyone should play nice.
John Hunter
Senior Member
Username: johnhunter

Post Number: 94
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

We've had them used primarily for coordination drawings and clash detection, although on one project the mechanical sub used them to develop their duct shop drawings. If this requirement is being driven by the Owner, the Owner-Architect agreement should be reviewed to see what, if any, requirements the Owner has for the model. It's also important that the data licensing agreement and any licensing fee be explicit in the documents. We've been using the AIA C106.
Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre

Post Number: 1221
Registered: 07-2002

Posted on Monday, December 12, 2011 - 07:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

licensing fee?
there are a couple of other things that have to go into the data management understanding.
1) if the contractor insists on pricing some elements of the project (say -- structural) before the model is ready, then the contractor has to accept the fact that they are working with incomplete information and price accordingly. on an orthagonal project, this may not make that much difference.
2) once the contractor takes over the model, they are required to verify that they have the latest version of the model, and they are required to provide translations for their subcontractors who do not have access to Revit (or whatever) and are still working from 2D information. The architect will not be responsible for back-translating the model informaiton into 2D drawings.
As for the original question: the specs should not be on the model -- and I think its going to be a long time before we expect that to happen. the tags can be as complicated as you want them to be (we opt for more generic tags, actually). A wall tag can give a complete wall assembly, or it can refer to a detail book with the wall assembly.
At the moment, more of the benefits of the 3D modeling seem to accrue to the contractor in terms of providing piece counts, clash detection; and other coordination benefits. I'm not yet seeing benefits on the architetural side -- and its certainly not a time saving device.
Liz O'Sullivan
Senior Member
Username: liz_osullivan

Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2011

Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2012 - 06:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Thanks for all the assistance. I have a much better understanding of this issue now, thanks to all of you.
Seamus McGrady (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2012 - 12:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Hello Liz, If you'd like to provide your specs linked to the BIM model being delivered let me know. e-SPECS can provide this integration to Word files, PDFs, etc. (even if they were not created in e-SPECS). For obvious reasons including estimating, bidding, CA, as-builts, and even on to FM, the e-SPECS for Revit and Navisworks integration can help to deliver coordinated documents accessed directly in the BIM models.

I'm with InterSpec (e-SPECS) in case it doesn't appear and it shows up as GUEST (yes, rookie poster). You can reach me at +1-888-50-SPECS or smcgrady@e-SPECS.com if you'd like to learn more.

Happy Friday!

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