Utilizing and understanding the BIM D...

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Author Message Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 158 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 10:58 am:    I am being pulled, kicking and screaming into BIM beacause one of my clients has decided it's better than sliced bread. I typically get the drawings from my clients in hard copy or PDF's as I don't use any of the graphics software on my system nor am I inclined to do so. Fortunately we discovered that the data base could be exported to Access which I can read. Now, How do I interpret it? I don't use Espec or any of the other database/automated spec systems. I still do it the old-fashioned way, writing! If any of you have had some experience in this aspect of BIM, I can use some help and suggestions here. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 148 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 11:00 am:    which bim program? Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 159 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 11:26 am:    Rivit John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 929 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 11:56 am:    My advice would be to insist on getting plots or PDFs just like always; Revit can produce these, and they will probably be preparing them anyway for other entities. I'd be extremely surprised if you can tell what you need to know from the database. Plus, many firms are doing details using Autocad, not Revit, due to the increase in model size by adding that level of detail. As of yet, there is no Revit viewer program the way there is for Autocad (which I use here regularly.) It's pretty unrealistic to expect a specifier to purchase and train in the use of Revit merely so they can avoid making a few plots. Tell them to give you plots or find a new specifier. (They won't be able to find one who can do this, of course.) Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 160 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 12:03 pm:    They are going to provide me with PDF's also. The idea is to take advantage of the object information in the databases as another means of communication with the designer (if I can figure it out). It beats tossing questions across the cubicle wall when I was an inhouse specifier or drowning him with emails as I do now. Especially if the info is embeded in the document database as BIM is supposed to do. Mark Gilligan SE, CSI Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 12:16 pm:    It is situations like these that make me wonder if REVIT is being used by firms that do not understand how they and their consultants will use it. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 149 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 12:25 pm:    Please tell me how the database can be exported from Revit- have been looking for that and had not stumbled onto it yet. I have 2008 version loaded right now. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 801 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 12:33 pm:    the information embedded in Revit isn't going to be that useful to you -- its not as if they embed product information or assembly information in the model. the embedded information will be more of the quantity, dimension and configuration type. I look at the models in my office only to understand how things are put together -- the material information is of more use to the fabricator than the specifier. And yes, you should be getting pdfs or other drawings. And no, e-specs will not make this work better -- you have to set up the definitions in e-specs, it won't do that for you. And, finally, most of the information you will want will be on the 2D drawings anyway. Almost no one is modeling things like casework details and other actual installation information. Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 161 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 01:49 pm:    Chris, I didn't do the exporting, but from what I understand there is an export function to an Access database. From what I saw on the object type spreadsheets there is spot for model, manufacturer and web catalog cut URLs that can be useful if they are used by the guys developing the objects as they draw. Anne, you may be right, about the database not being useful. But I'm willing (kinda) to explore it. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 310 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 02:04 pm:    I've seen the export file; not much use as it is. As John notes, the model doesn't go all the way due to file size, so all of the information is not captured in the database. We're working on a way to filter the export file, which lists each item individually, to get a simple list with each item listed only once. My hope is that there will be enough so it tells me about the single projection screen in a large hospital, which is easy to miss. BIM joke: What's a horny frog say? Rubit. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 150 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, July 11, 2008 - 02:07 pm:    Anne you are absolutely right. My interest is more of a proactive and forward-looking approach than a here and now expectation of finding any useful data in there. As long as architects take the lead on BIM in most firms, and specifiers wait until somebody else figures it out, the middle initial of the acronym will not have much meaning, and Revit or other BIM platforms will be used as not much more than a fancy 3D drawing tool. Hearing that there is a way to export something is encouraging. I previously found where we could meddle with Revit keynotes and plug in our own definitions and tailor them to each project, so our teams could have a list of terminology and systems anticipated for the project, but I hadn't seen a way to export anything to Access yet like we had been able to do with AutoCAD/ADT. It is all just one big .rvt file. I will poke around some more soon. Even better than exporting and having isolated copies of data, would be live linking of two or more specialized systems for data (one being Revit, the other being a more or less "intelligent" spec editor). Not that specs should ever be automated - I LOVE the comment someone posted about how they would then have to be called "Generalizations". But surely there ought to be a way we could better organize the information, so we could then focus more on our real tasks of evaluating products and customizing the whole gamut of specific requirements for the project. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 151 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 11:26 am:    Anyone who is familiar with the database export in Revit- Are you using Revit 2008, or 2009 now, or something older? I am considering upgrading to 09. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: bob_johnson Post Number: 167 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 03:00 pm:    Margaret I hope you keep us posted on how you have ended up operating on your BIM project. Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 162 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 03:25 pm:    I met wtih my client Wednesday, because they are finding the learning curve in using the system as a BIM pretty massive, we are going to treat all documents for this project as we normally do, Q&A time. However I think I've interested the young man who is working on "conquering" the system in the CSI BIM practice groups. I'm going to see if we can get some folk here in Tidewater to explore the system from the graphics as well as the data management side (specs) to be able to utilize and maybe contribute to those libraries CSI is spearheading. We'll see. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 156 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, August 22, 2008 - 11:23 am:    I'm on Revit '09 now. It can to spit out some real data by going to File, Export, ODBC, Machine Data Source, MS Access. You have to have a blank .mdb file somewhere already, then click ok and browse to it. On my first test, a lot of the tables were empty, but depending on where the design team had been working, some do have a concise listing of actual data that they have put somewhere in the model - doors with & without fire ratings and STC ratings, wall systems, windows... Having useful output absolutely does depend on whether correct data is INPUT into the model in the first place. A little bit of careful work with design team early on can help, and having a list of pre-selected keynotes &/or outline specs will go a long way towards that effort. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 329 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 07:24 pm:    Let's see: go to FILE/EXPORT/ODBC/MACHINE DATA SOURCE/MS ACCESS/ oops ... need a blank .mdb file. So ... create blank .mdb file, whatever that is, then ... FILE/EXPORT/ODBC ... Sounds like "not ready for prime time" to me. People will use it when it's a click on the toolbar. I expect specifiers will find a wealth of job opportunities helping build model objects integrating proper product terminology and keynotes into BIM models. As if specifiers need more to do. But the PAs can't do it on a project by project basis. They don't have the knowledge nor the time.