| Author |
Message |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 126
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:42 pm: |    |
So Am I nuts or should not ANY tile over 12x12 be bed set with uncoupling or uncoupled with thinset. Some of these 24x24 tiles scare me a little.
I used to use an antifracture membrane universally under tile on suspended slabs.
for the most part smaller tiles have done well with this, but larger tiles???
The same question goes for waterproofing on susp. slabs. OK for small tiles but large ones?
Irregularities in the substrate, the deflection of suspended slabs, et cetera. Are making me think Schluter Ditra or other uncoupling as a requirement.
What do you think?
PS large tiles and slip resistance too!(fewer grout lines to help my slip CoE) |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 151
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:56 pm: | |
Don't forget to push up your FF and FL numbers for large tile. Historically, we just haven't had tile problems, but since the large tile craze began, we have been having problems, even with better slabs.
I gained personal experience last year, when I installed 17" square tile in my home. After back-buttering the tile, I had to have my wife stand on my feet so I wouldn't tip over while placing the tile. ;-) I hate to think about installing the 3'x5' tile our interior designers are so excited about.
It would be nice if interior designers - and architects - had more appreciation for the work involved in getting that unique appearance they're after. I'm not saying we shouldn't use interesting products, but there's a lot below the surface that I believe is usually ignored. |
Doug Brinley AIA CSI CDT CCS
Senior Member
Username: dbrinley
Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:25 pm: | |
Having installed DITRA under 12x12 ceramic floor tiles, I can attest that it is skookum for elevated (you say suspended) slabs - and you'd be on firm ground insisting on DITRA for any tiles over say 6x6.
KERDI is the crack isolation product that would offer a lot less protection in an elevated slab application - and it would be hard to justify this lower level of performance in a building worth your time given how flexible elevated slabs are these days.
Worst problem is that the slabs are more flexible in certain zones; that is what is breaking the tiles; not that the floor is flexible, but it is 'differently' flexible.
TROBA is the waterproof version of DITRA and is highly bulletproof but good luck getting it in your project because it will triple the installation cost. Do you really really need a 1,000 sf shower pan? (Try a roof instead)
Many contractors will try to substitute the equivalent of KERDI and they wouldn't be wrong but it's just not as skookum.
Signed,
SOLD ON DITRA |
David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI
Senior Member
Username: davidcombs
Post Number: 69
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:57 pm: | |
Okay, I'll bite:
What is "skookum"? |
Doug Brinley AIA CSI CDT CCS
Senior Member
Username: dbrinley
Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 05:03 pm: | |
Skookum
the Chinuk word for
strong, powerful, good, cool, superlative or first rate. |
David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA, MAI
Senior Member
Username: davidcombs
Post Number: 70
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 06:39 pm: | |
Oh good.
I thought maybe I had a page missing from my Schluter catalog. <G> |
Lynn Javoroski
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 230
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 08:35 am: | |
Another AWAD subscriber! |
Tracy Van Niel
Senior Member
Username: tracy_van_niel
Post Number: 129
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 09:29 am: | |
A Dal-Tile rep who is in our office recently for a product presentation, sent me a Mapei product cut for "Ultra/Contact" which she said they (Dal-Tile) have been recommending for the large format tiles. The cut indicates that it can used to install "most" types of small, normal and large modular ceramic tile and stone tile. I don't think it's recommended for moisture sensitive natural stone or light colored or translucent marble. We haven't specified it yet but just offering as an fyi ... |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:58 pm: | |
I believe that's "Chinook".
Thanks, all for your notes.
PS perhaps we could all start placing the MF number prior to the title of future posts if the question is "MasterFormatable." Like I did for this one. What do you all thenk? |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 153
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 10:29 am: | |
Yet another use for MF! Dennis, why didn't you think of it? ;-) |
Dale Roberts
Member
Username: dale_roberts_csi
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 02:13 pm: | |
Marc, the TCA has a caution Substrate Limitations: The performance of a properly installed thin set ceramic tile installation is dependent upon the durability and dimensional stability of the substrate to which it is bonded. The TCA recommends deflection not to exceed 1/360 of span. My recommendation is to use a single source manufacture of tile and stone installation system. Use a manufacture that will warranty the whole installation system. from the anti-fracture membrane to the thin-set mortar and the grout. Use an anti-fracture membrane or flexible 118.4 Latex modified Thin-Set. Most Tile manufacture recommends 118.4 latex modified thin-set for porcelain or glass tile. Mortar manufactures will warranty up to 24 x 24 tile and stone if you use a 118.4 Latex modified thin-set. |
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