Fire Extinguisher Cabinets

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Author Message Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 200 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 11:44 am:    Problem: I have to specify a fire extinguisher cabinet in a psychiatric ward. Obviously, the cabinet should allow access to the extinguisher in case of a fire and just as obviously, the cabinet should restrict access to the extinguisher if someone wants to use it as a weapon. The responses I have so far give me 2 options. I can lock the cabinet so that a key is needed to open it and either store the key someplace secure or have all the staff carry keys. This seems to me to be asking for trouble - in an emergency is everyone going to remember where the key is stored? And if all the staff carry keys, what are the chances that someone will lose it? Option 2 is to install a lock with a safety cam made of lexan and alarm the cabinet so that when the cam is broken by opening the cabinet, an alarm sounds. The safety cam can be broken by a concerted effort - a sharp, hard, pull is what I was told - but not by a casual tug. But at least, if someone unauthorized does open the cabinet, everyone will be aware of it. Thoughts? Ideas? Anyone have this situation before? Mitch Miller,AIA ,CSI,CCS Senior Member Username: m2architek Post Number: 28 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 11:50 am:    it certainly is an interesting dilema, however, the purpose of the fire extingusher cabinet is for access, therefore, hiding the key is not an option. I had a similar situation in a dimentia unit and the owner just had to deal with the patients possibly figuring out how open. The alarm is a good idea, but could possibly be going off alot. Also, I dont believe the local fire marshall would approve of the hidden key. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 11:54 am:    Lynn, I would suggest talking with one of the manufacturers to see what they might have. They don't always publish that stuff in their general catalogs. I used to work for a firm that did a lot of justice work, including detention facilities. There may be a separate catalog for detention products. Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 30 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:03 pm:    We've done a number of college dormitories where the Fire Marshal has eliminated the requirement for the fire extinguishers in a sprinklered building. The reason...college students will be college students and they did not want the hassles associated with repairing and replacing extinguishers and cabinets. (BTW: They are still in mechanical rooms and other "inaccessible" spaces.) Seems like the same argument could be made in this situation. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 114 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:19 pm:    We just did a mental hospital where we used detention-type fire extinguisher cabinets and valve cabinets. They are of a heavier construction, and have locked doors with a prison paracentric lock, requiring a special key to open. phil babinec Senior Member Username: pbabinec Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 12:08 pm:    The safety cam's purpose is incidental security in lieu of breaking glass, not security as in this case. Even with an alarm - to late. Our review of other institutions, most cabinets are located within a secured nurses station. If out in open, are certainly fully recessed and anchored to wall construction. Key locked with all staff holding a master. Apparently they will even hold dummy keys with the master to delay intrustion if keys are wrestled away. Fronts are typ. solid, but id vision panel is used - polycarbonate. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 443 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:28 pm:    I believe that security takes precedence over safety in institutions like yours. The rules have changed for your circumstance. I am willing to bet that the exit doors are locked down and patients are not allowed to exit the building like they would in a "normal" office building, school, or hospital. Therefore, I would recommend a recessed/flush cabinet without any windows and with a lock. I would also recommend that the cabinet not have a handle. People have an incredible instinct to pull on a handle. Patients could try to hang themselves from the handle. You want only the staff (not the patients) to be able to access the fire extinguisher cabinet so a keyed lock is necessary. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 211 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 05:22 pm:    How about a cabinet lock that accepts the building lock system's lock cylinder? The same key used on the building door would open the fire extinguisher cabinet. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 445 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 06:10 pm:    Great idea John! Another interesting idea would be to use magnetic locks and electrically tie the cabinet into the fire alarm system. When the alarm system goes off the cabinet doors unlock. A cylindrical lock can be used as a back up incase the fire is minor enough not to trip the alarm. Anonymous   Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 08:44 am:    If the fire is big enough to trip the alarm, wouldn't you just want to get out of there and not try to fight it with a 5 lb extinguisher? David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 446 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 01:07 pm:    I'm thinking more of when someone sees smoke and pulls the alarm....or one of the nurses lights up in the lounge and the smoke dectector trips. Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 203 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 01:23 pm:    Thanks all. Once again, your information proved invaluable. (I like this "collective brain" thing) I had talked to a couple of manufacturers before asking here, and the 2 ideas they had were what I put up first. Potter Roemer didn't return my call. What I wound up with was flush, no glass (even though the client standard is glazed), no handle and a lock keyed like the doors to the department. (smoking in the lounge is not an issue; we're adding an outside smoking area for the patients - sort of a green house so the patients are visible at all times, with opaque glass on the roof for sun control and in some of the windows that would be visible from this smoking shelter) We get one more round of Owner review, so there should be some feedback. You all raised the alarm about the alarm enough that I nixed that idea, although I liked it at first. The detention equipment was another option, but is "heavier duty" than what the architect or owner seemed to think was necessary. Thanks again. Anonymous   Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 06:59 pm:    Mitch, How is the sing along gang? Fan