New CDT renewal requirements

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Author Message Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 348 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 09:45 am:    I have a question related to the new CDT renewal requirements in relation to if you have a CCS or one of the other 'advanced' certifications. When I originally took my CCS, there was no prerequisite requirement to take and pass the CDT first and then take the CCS. So I never sat for CDT as a separate exam, it was combined with the CCS test that I took and passed. A co-worker who gets the CSI Leader emails shared the one that arrived yesterday where someone had posted a message to "Update to CDT" that said they had contacted CSI to ask if a CCS or CCCA would ALSO have to renew a CDT and the answer was 'yes'. Is this true? What the heck ... so a CCS renewal (or CCCA, etc.) actually means TWO renewals and TWO (or double) fees? Tracy L. Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Sheldon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 01:38 pm:    Good question, Tracy; post to CSI Resources. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1490 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 05:37 pm:    CSI is aware of the question (a similar one was posted on CSI-Connect) and will be sending out and posting information regarding this transition and why it was necessary. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 303 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, April 13, 2018 - 12:30 pm:    This is in an email I just received on the subject. "Professionals holding upper level certification (CCS, CCPR and CCCA) are not required to maintain the CDT." Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 349 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Monday, April 16, 2018 - 07:46 am:    Thank you, Don. I just now saw the same email you reference so am happy to see a double renewal (CDT/CCS or CDT/CCCA, etc.) is not going to be required. Tracy L. Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Brian E. Trimble, CDT Senior Member Username: brian_e_trimble_cdt Post Number: 102 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 11:51 am:    Does anyone know what the cost of the renewal fee for the CDT will be? I couldn't find it anywhere online? anonymous (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 01:30 pm:    I hear it is almost a $200 initial fee that must be paid just to keep your current CDT. Plus additional fees at each renewal. People can say anything they think here and on the CSI forum thing, but this appears to be just another cash flow issue for the national Institute. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1491 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 03:02 pm:    Not a cash flow issue at all. There is a cost related to maintaining the CDT as a certification. There is probably no legitimate certification that does not require renewal or requires no fee for renewal. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 239 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 03:25 pm:    In response to Anonymous, it is very easy to become cynical about fees. During a very bleak period of my life, I could not write the checks, small as they seem now, to maintain my CCS and CCCA certifications. Attaining them took a lot of time and some money, which I will have to re-invest to regain. At this point, I am quite willing to invest in, and thus commit to, my CDT, because it was the first and most important step I took in attaining the others. The only thing that is free is nothing. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1029 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 04:52 pm:    I recognize the need for renewal fees and CD requirements; however, I am one of those who earned CCS before any of the other certifications were in place. I have never presented myself as a CDT and was somewhat surprised to find that I was granted CDT by virtue of my CCS credential (at least I assume that was the case). I won't be maintaining CDT, partly because of the cost (both monetary and administrative) and partly because it is superfluous. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2149 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 06:12 pm:    If you have earned an advanced certification (CCS, CCCA, or CCPR), there's no need to maintain your CDT. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1030 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 07:18 pm:    I think there is an expectation on the part of the Institute that one will maintain CDT even if they have earned an advanced certification. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP, LEED AP BD+C Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 395 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 07:23 pm:    But why? The CDT was a prerequisite and the letters CDT are dropped from one's signature after receiving one of the advanced certifications. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1032 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 07:33 pm:    And some of us old hands who earned CCS before CDT never earned CDT to begin with. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1492 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 07:56 pm:    CSI has no expectations--people will do what they want to do. The use of CDT with the advanced certifications will change as the CDT becomes a certification. If the CDT is maintained as per the renewal criteria, then it can be used in addition to the CCS, CCCA, and CCPR. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 07:43 pm:    Peter, I haven't seen anything from the institute to imply that there is an expectation to maintain CDT even if you've earned an advanced certification. In fact, I've seen the opposite in the email notification that was sent out, and has been quoted by Don earlier in this discussion. Why do you think the expectation from the institute would be different? Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP, LEED AP BD+C Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 396 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 08:45 pm:    There needs to be some clarification, if we are to begin using CDT in our designations as well. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1493 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 09:05 pm:    If you want to use the "CDT" designation, then you will have to maintain it every three years like the other certifications with continuing education and a renewal fee. If you don't want to use the "CDT" designation, then you have two options: Maintain it as mentioned above or forgot about it. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Paul Sweet (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 12:31 pm:    I've always looked at the CDT as the equivalent of the EIT; you're qualified to take the test that really counts, but not significant by itself. I occasionally use CSI after my name, but never used CDT. I guess I'll let it expire. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1162 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 - 01:22 pm:    While I am a strong supporter of the CDT as a stand-alone certificate as well as an entrance to higher certifications, the departure of CDT in terms of my own certification (also attained pre-CDT era) will go by largely unnoticed, much the same as when I found out that I was awarded a CDT by virtue of being a CCS and CCCA. It would be hard for me to care less. Brian Payne, AIA Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 138 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 08:48 am:    So what responsibility does CSI have to keep it's word. "CDT is a lifetime achievement and does not require renewal." CSI website Did I miss the fine print that said "or until we change our mind and not make it lifetime and start charging you for it." Am I missing something? Anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 10:34 am:    I feel this is again going back to communication and listening to the membership. Too many questions were ignored, or institute did not want to take the time to talk to the membership at large. For example, those of us that teach the CDT review classes. If I am going to pay for a review class, I think one is entitled to expect the teacher is competent in CDT. How many of you on this blog have even read the new manual? Lot has changed. Anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 10:37 am:    Ronald, who is on this committee and what were their marching orders from Institute. Mr wiseman is a bit reluctant to give this information, or to provide meeting minutes, agendas, etc. Thanks Brian Payne, AIA Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 141 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 11:00 am:    Ron, I also wanted to comment on "There is probably no legitimate certification that does not require renewal or requires no fee for renewal." This seems like a very broad statement that isn't true even in our own industry. I can take a professional certification exam through Autodesk for any of their software. It is a certification that you had the knowledge and specific skill set required to meet a set standard at the time of the test. There is no renewal fee. I'm not sure why the CDT would be any different. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 12:48 pm:    I earned my CDT (and joined CSI) at an employer's urging. However over the subsequent years, I've developed such a disdain for CSI's antics, posturing, etc., I wish I could have rid myself of the CDT cert (dropped membership long ago after leaving that employer), but never could having also earned the "lifetime without renewal" status. I can finally rid myself of of this cert....forever...until CSI decides to re-think it's position...again? Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 1013 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 03:00 pm:    While it's probably true that anyone can create a certification for anything, the point here is making CDT a certification that complies with national standards. Several years ago, the discussion was that the existing CDT would be left behind, retaining whatever value it had to those who used it. The replacement for the CDT was to have a new name so there would be no confusion, and the original pledge that the CDT was forever would be unaffected. Brian Payne, AIA Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 142 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 03:02 pm:    That is way too logical! Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2018 - 04:41 pm:    Isn't what Sheldon describes what essentially happened with LEED AP? It was a one time test, good for life, no renewal. Then USGBC changed their mind and created the specialties (BD+C, ID+C, etc.), but they said if you earned the LEED AP, go ahead and keep using it, you earned it. The specialties do require continuing ed, renewal fees etc. They never dropped you if you didn't get the specialty, you just can't add a few more letters beyond LEEP AP. They also introduced LEED Green Associate to cover prerequisite requirements for the advanced LEED AP with specialty certifications. LEED Green Associate also carries continuing ed requirements, and it is dropped when you earn an advanced certification. In a discussion (perhaps on CSI connect) someone suggested calling it a CCDT and you become a Certified Construction Documents Technologist. If you want the CCDT designation, take the new test and earn it, or keep the old CDT designation you earned for life. Eventually CDT usage will drop as people retire, or stop using it, or pursue the advanced CCDT certification and replace it. CSI could have a lot of disgruntled former CDTs on their hands by taking away something that had been awarded for life. At least USGBC was aware enough to not take anything away and just rename some stuff, and let the legacy LEED APs continue on if they wanted to. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1494 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 01:40 am:    Anon: The certification committee is responsible for direction and development of CSI's certification program. This conversion has been discussed and planned over several years--it was not a decision made overnight. Brian: Autodesk's certifications are for their own products only and I highly doubt that they would come close to conforming to ISO/IEC 17024 "Conformity assessment - General requirements for bodies operating certification of persons," which is the international standard for personal certification programs. Guest: Both the AP and the updated BD+C et. al. certifications are clearly programs of LEED since each start off with "LEED," which made the transition easy. With the CDT, it's a different situation. Changing the name was considered, but the CDT does have some good brand recognition, and if we were to change the name, then we would be starting from scratch. Thus, it was determined to keep it as "CDT." Making the CDT a certifications will open it up to greater acceptance by other organizations and agencies. NCARB a few years ago dropped the CDT as an acceptable means for experience hours, but have retained the CCS and CCCA (https://www.ncarb.org/gain-axp-experience/experience-requirements/setting-o). Now that the CDT is moving to a certification, talks with NCARB are in progress to add it back into the AXP experience requirements. Some people will not like it, and that is understandable and accepted as reality. As the quote from John Lydgate goes, “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.” The decision was made in the interest of progress for the greater design and construction industry and its many and varied professions. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Brian Payne, AIA Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 143 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Monday, April 23, 2018 - 07:22 am:    That all sounds good. I’m sure it makes sense to a lot of people. The problem I have is that I specifically chose to pay to get my CDT because there was no renewal. Lifetime achievement had/has value to me. I’ve done LEED and dropped it bc I can’t stand the maintenance effort. It’s not a matter of not “liking” it. I held up my side of the contract and paid my fee. CSI is choosing to not hold up thier side of the deal. I have ethical issues with that big time. You can’t just change the terms of service after the fact and maintain respectability.