| Author |
Message |
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne
Post Number: 242
Registered: 01-2014
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 09:03 am: |    |
IBC 2406.3 says each pane of safety glazing in hazardous locations require a label. IBC 2406.4 lists those hazardous locations, which doesn't include elevators. IBC 2409.4 says that glass in elevators need to meet ANSI Z97.1. ANSI Z97.1 requires labels.
So even though the code discusses labels and doesn't list the label as a requirement for glass lining an elevator cab walls, it ends up requiring it through the referenced standard.
Am I understanding this correctly, has anyone found a way around this? |
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne
Post Number: 243
Registered: 01-2014
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 09:06 am: | |
2406.3 allows for the building official to use a certificate confirming compliance with code instead of labels for laminated glass in hazardous locations, but the code does not include the same exception for elevators. |
George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 923
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 06:12 pm: | |
Why would you exclude the label from any pane of safety glazing? Can you even get safety glass without the label? |
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne
Post Number: 245
Registered: 01-2014
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 07:33 pm: | |
Because nobody wants to see this. Ideally there is a letter in the elevator control room or such that tells the elevator inspector that every piece of glass meets code. |
George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 924
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2021 - 09:41 pm: | |
Is that glazing, or decorative glass?
Sorry, since I have retired I haven't kept up on current codes (IBC 2012 is the last issue I have handy so you may need to do some numerical translations to current edition) but decorative glass -- defined in Chapter 2 -- was excluded from the requirements for Hazardous Locations 2406.4.
Regarding the letter, 2012 IBC 2403 required a mark on all glass, which could be omitted with a glazing contractor certification if approved by the AHJ. Tempered glass, on the other hand, must be marked with a permanent marking that cannot be removed without the glass pane being destroyed. (Safety glazing similar, see 2406.3) I would suggest that the letter in the building office is moot, given what the code says.
Your saving grace seems to be the decorative glass exclusion. It's hard to tell the scale from the photo you posted, but this looks like a decorative element on the inside of a cab, probably up against a solid backing like a plywood panel?
Again, sorry I don't have the current code references, but hope this is helpful. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1382
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 - 09:18 am: | |
George, this seems to be available. I understand that they won their lawsuit so we should be able to use it.
https://up.codes/building-codes-online
Brian, my understanding is that even as a decorative element, when used in elevators glass has to be safety glass. Perhaps you can avoid the label by using laminated glass instead of tempered or perhaps you can use a film on the back of the glass to provide safety glass compliance - https://cdn.llumar.com/drupal/scl_sr_ps4_quarter_inch_18_inch_drop_0.pdf. I understand it's available in colors - http://llumar.blob.core.windows.net/drupal/na_deco.pdf |
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne
Post Number: 246
Registered: 01-2014
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 - 09:38 am: | |
@Ken, it actually is laminated glass, however the manufacturer is stating that the code required ANSI Z97.1 standard for laminated is forcing them to label the glass despite the code exception for laminated glass.
Plus the certificate exception applies to safety glazing. Unfortunately, the elevator glass is not in the safety glazing section is not referred by that terminology in the code. It is just required to meet the same standard (thus the label).
I hate to depend on Alternate Means/Methods....but may have to. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1383
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 - 09:46 am: | |
See what happens whey you follow the rules?
Good luck!
I'd love to hear that this ends happily. |
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC
Senior Member
Username: redseca2
Post Number: 698
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 30, 2021 - 02:05 pm: | |
Yes, we have had at least one project where after lengthy greased pig wrestling there is now a letter in the elevator control room to cover the decorative glass panels that do not have labels... |
Guest (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2021 - 05:33 pm: | |
Brian, you might also check ASME A17.1 requirements for glass in elevator cars. It indicates that labeling required by the safety standards shall remain visible after installation. https://up.codes/viewer/alabama/asme-a17.1-2019/chapter/2/electric-elevators#2.14.1.8 (note this is using the Up Codes platform to view the code through Alabama who adopts it without modification. Your AHJ may differ.) |
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