Anybody Use Sweets catalogs?

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 211 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 12:41 pm:    I just received our new 2004 Sweets catalogs. While swapping out the 2003 Sweets I noticed its pristine condition. Ususally by May, pages are dog eared and falling out of the catalogs. Instead of grabbing Sweets, people prefer to look at online search engines and websites like www.4specs.com (Colin paid me to say that). It seems the only people that regulary use Sweets are putting together presentation boards and need dead weight. Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 26 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 12:48 pm:    Our new Sweets catalog is only eleven volumes and fits on one shelf. I remember when it was 18 thicker volumes and took up 2-3 shelves. I don't think that we spec writers use it much anymore. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 170 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 01:12 pm:    David, I asked around our office a few months ago and found the exact same response - one person had used it as weights. I decided not to renew this year, and told them so, but they sent it anyway. Ralph Liebing Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 02:43 pm:    We have had the same experience-- $500 for a smallish 11 volumes, which is inadequate to covering the field. Hey! How about we create the "SPEC-WRITERS-FIND-OUT-ABOUT-IT-HERE" [ i.e., the SWFOAIH] web site, using Colin's web site guide lines information; and FOR A FEE,from the manufacturers, we will make their information available, PROVIDED they use Colin's website, as the standard? ALLLLL Abooooaaarrrdddd!!!! David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 212 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 02:50 pm:    Just today, one of the partners complained to me about this very issue. We end up giving away a mint condition 2003 Sweets. Rick does not want to renew our subscription next year. Fine by me. (I hope Sweets is listening.) D. Marshall Fryer Senior Member Username: dmfryer Post Number: 16 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 03:15 pm:    I used to go to Sweets almost daily, now its once a week or less. As far as being a primary source of information on a known product, it cannot campare to an up-to-date vendor's binder or a web site, as the Sweets information is usually too shallow and/or marketing department driven. As far as being a resource for discovering additional manufacturers for something, it is really being supplanted by web searches and sites like 4spec. So I agree that Sweet's days are numbered, unless it can reinvent itself as a free service. Maybe we can claim a LEED point for the trees saved by not using Sweets. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 171 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:10 pm:    I spoke to Sweets at the CSI convention about seven or eight (maybe more) years ago both before and shortly after they first started their web site. At the time, they refused to give links to manufacturer's own sites (or perhaps they charged too much), and there were other hassles with using the site that I don't remember now. I think one of them was that there was no more in it than the printed catalog. In any case, I made a pitch that the web would soon take over, and the printed catalog would be useless. They had no interest -- it was clear that they thought that they had something no one esle did, and they could never be knocked from their perch. At the same time, manufacturers (especially smaller ones) were complaining about the cost of being there. One told me he had to pay $10,000 for just a few pages. I wonder what they have to say now. I never, ever use their web site. Does anyone else? Tracy Van Niel Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 56 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:30 pm:    The one thing that I have found helpful with Sweets is the ability to look at several manufacturers' information quickly, more used when we're looking for something that's not in our master. The problem arises when manufacturers no longer participate in Sweets or they only publish a one or two page sheet that says "see our website for more information". Some of the PAs in our office say Sweets is the first place they go to look for information (and we just ordered the 2004 ... our "current" version is dated 2001), others say the internet is the first place they go to look for something. I suspect that this will be one of the last times we order them (I'd rather use our technical budget to get updated ASTM standards in building codes instead). I don't use Sweets website, from what I remember, you had to register to get access to it (or was that Arcat?). I use the 4Specs website mostly. Binders on our shelves are the first place we look for information, websites second. CDs or diskettes (we still get some of those) are not used that much. Like noted on the "do you use CDs thread", they can be the basis for great tree ornaments. Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 27 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:36 pm:    Sometimes using Dogpile multisearch (www.dogpile.com) leads me to Sweets or Arcat but I generally use 4specs. I hardly ever open the hardcover Sweets these days. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 213 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:46 pm:    What the hell is wrong with me? That's twice that I misspelled "USE"! Hey Colin! Is there anyway to install a spell checker in this forum? I need it! Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 72 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, December 18, 2003 - 04:52 pm:    We took a survey in our Seattle, Portland and LA offices asking how many people preferred the hard copy Sweet's over the electronic Sweet's. I never use the things, and consider them a space-wasting nuisance, so I was surprised that half the responders do use Sweet's regularly (more than 2 times a month) and do not like the electronic version. With that in mind, I've continued to order the hard copy, but will monitor the usage for the next couple of years. We seem to also have a 50/50 split between people who go to the web for information first, and people who use catalogs. Tom Heineman RA, FCSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: tom_heineman Post Number: 23 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Saturday, December 20, 2003 - 11:32 am:    I long ago got to the point of thinking (and editing) with the screen, and not depending on printouts. Still, I find the efficiency and speed of search and comparison by Sweet's Catalogs unparalleled - in those areas where a CRITICAL MASS of USEFUL information exists. The problem is not with McGraw-Hill (unless it is what they charge mfrs). I see brochures that do not have specifying info, and in many cases not even good selection info. Both are needed. And of course as mfrs drop out, rapid selection and analysis suffer. Who will tell the mfrs that CDs are OUT, websites can improve radically, and that for rapid search and comparison the day may never come when the web can totally beat the book? Colin must be almost alone in trying to make websites useful to users - he needs our help. We need to tell Sweet's former users that we need them too. A/Es and A/E's needs do not come in one flavor, as Anne says. The web and the book; the book and the web. Anonymous   Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 03:04 pm:    Mr. Gilboy-- this thread is so close to the one elsewhere about CDs, can't we get them togehter in one place? Alfred Kessi New member Username: aquafin Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 04:30 pm:    Manufacturer's opinion: 3 years ago we used to pay $17,000/yr for 4 pages. 90% of the calls we received were about elevator waterproofing. Colin's referral and our own web page help us a lot more. John Guill (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 07:54 pm:    Sweet's? Never touch 'em. 4Specs.com is my homepage. Only use google when i must. Thanks Colin! Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 22 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 05:13 pm:    Of the comments above I'd say the one about using it to quickly see other manuf. products is the best under the category of "why bother." Books do have their uses. BUT per A. Whitacre I have purchased a full copy of Copernic for real hard core searches if 4specs doesn't get in to it or if it's not strictly product related. Sweets never went there anyway. It'll be gone in 5 years (and that's being generous) Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 35 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:18 am:    What is Copernic and where does one find it? Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 113 Registered: 05-2000 Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:33 am:    http://www.copernic.com/en/index.html