Access doors

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 207 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 04:44 pm:    How do you guys specify access doors? The problem is that you can not determine the size or quantity of access doors until the mechanical equipment is installed and the wall framing is up. Anonymous   Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 05:15 pm:    Section 01270 - Unit Prices David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 208 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 05:22 pm:    Unit prices based on a specific size or based on a square footage of door opening? What about cash allowances? Thanks. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 167 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 05:24 pm:    We typically include the furnishing in the mechanical, plumbing and electrical sections to comply with the access door section. The installation is then done by the drywaller. Yes, I know this is doing that thing we're not supposed to do - get involved in trades. But in public work, we have to have a precise scope for the MEP trades, among others, anyway so they can be separately bid. I have done this on a few private projects as well and never had a problem with it. Tracy Van Niel Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 55 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 07:36 am:    On some projects we have specified a certain quantity and then indicated an allowance amount for each additional door. Joseph Berchenko New member Username: josephberchenko Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2003 Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:10 am:    There must be a better way to address the issues discussed above. If specified by allowance, the contractor must have an accurate method of determining location and size or cannot accurately bid. Any engineers out there have recommendations? When exactly are access doors required? Not at electrical, I believe, since access to electrical junctions/switches/etc. occur at NEC-rated panels. Should doors be placed at all concealed plumbing valves and cleanouts? Should they be placed at all concealed duct dampers? Does anyone know of specific industry guidelines regarding locations and sizes? Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 24 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:26 am:    Access doors are usually covered in both Div. 8 and Div. 15/16 or are omitted altogether. As a former wall & ceiling estimator, I can tell you that drywall contractors generally figure some into their bid whether shown, specified or left out. The best solution would be if access door locations types and sizes were indicated on the Drawings. This would necessitate the M/E Engineer informing the Architect of locations where access is needed and what size opening is required. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:33 am:    The MEP consultants that we have worked with typically specify where access doors are required on their drawings and in their sections and refer to our access door specification section. So, they cover the 'where'. Typically this relates to valves, cutoffs, etc. That gets the location, and basic quantities. In our section, we specify a unit price for additional requirements for several different sizes of each type of access door. I provide a form to be completed up front in the supplementary forms to be filled out for the add price for each size/each type. What invariably happens is that due to some configuration or other, a group of items needing access that could be reached through one panel end up needing an additional panel - and there are always those that are missed entirely. This gets a guaranteed price per door of each type for the Owner up front. I have been doing it that way since the mid-1970s, and have not had any problems with it ever. William Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 25 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 10:35 am:    Can we borrow your enlightened MEP consultants? John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 145 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 12:15 pm:    Actually, access doors should be in its own Division because the Access Doors of America Association (ADAA) is offended that their vital products are treated by CSI with such disrespect by being ignobably tossed about between Divisions 8, 13, 15 and 16 (yep, them fire sprinkler guys gotta have they own access doors too). It worked for the low voltage system manufacturers and specialty contractors. Why not access doors? Remember, it's not access doors but "access dooring". Think work results. Since the precise need for access doors is not determined until all the other building systems are laid out, "access dooring" should be Division 99 so nothing comes before it. Forget about the basic spec writing concept of "say it once", like in Division 8 where this spec writer specifies access doors according to MF95, and reference to the appropriate Division 8 Section from other Divisions. Just like joint sealers ... er, sealing ... and flashing and sheet metal. That requires coordination of design disciplines and loosing the fun of straightening out the conflicts of multiple access door products, failure to specify fire-rated access doors, failure to specify access doors in some locations with recessed faces for applying wall and ceiling finish materials, incorrect lock types and stainless steel vs plain or galvanized steel ... during construction, project after project after project. Remember, MasterFormat 2004 is about organizing construction information to suit a mythical universal or intergalactic classification system and not about better construction specifications writing.