|Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Post Number: 15
|Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 10:23 am: |
A client has asked us to specify a foamed in place insulation to fill the voids of concrete unit masonry walls. I am familiar with poured granular insulation and the prefab foam inserts, but not foamed in-place. The project is a high-rise condominium building in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Recommendations from the group would be appreciated.
|Richard Hird (Unregistered Guest)|
|Posted on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 09:01 pm: |
Commonly used in our area for single wythe walls. Not many folks use the inserts because of cost and traditional granular fills allegedly have trace amounts of asbestos. A hundred miles from here though the inserts are preferred.
Just a matter of economics. Like any other internal masonry insulation, bridging, and filling cores for reinforcing make it less effective than an external insulation.
If filled from an exposed surface you also have to address the problem of the location of holes used to inject the insulation. I have had some complaints about holes being drilled in unit faces rather than within joint width.
|Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest)
|Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 09:52 am: |
Foamed in place insulation in CMU walls is as common as both inserts and poured in place insulation. The old stuff had those good chemicals in them that caused cancer, but I think most manufacturers have now removed them. In a multi-story structure the CMU at the floor slab may be difficult to insulate just due to the installation method, but this should be dicussed with the manufacturer for coordination with Part 3 of the spec. Richard is correct, this work in normally performed from the interior and exterior insulation will give you a better job. Also, how many of the cores are going to have rebar and grout? You may have little insultation in the walls when you consider all things.
Let me see, high rise condo project, Flordia, CMU with foam-in-place insulation using nasty chemicals, project by developor who wants to turn a fast buck, and (could we be so lucky) ocean front location with high wind and salt water envirnoment? Can you post the name of your attorney and insurance carrier? :-)
|Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 11:09 am: |
I am familiar with two types of foamed in place products - polyurethane (try FOMO on the web, one of the largest manufacturers of this) and a polystyrene-like material called Icynene.
|Helaine K. Robinson CCS
Post Number: 7
|Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 11:12 am: |
Any relation to Kurt Vonnegut Jr's Ice-Nine?
|Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA|
Post Number: 10
|Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 12:22 pm: |
One thing to remember: Polyurethane foam is not an approved substitution for perlite and vermiculite, which is allowed under the UBC or IBC for increasing the fire resistance of concrete masonry units to 4 hours.
If this is the intent, then I suggest you discuss it with your building official before going any further.
Post Number: 11
|Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 01:34 am: |
Why are you putting foam in a CMU wall for? With hurricanes in Florida, I would suspect that solid grouting would be required as it is here in California to resist horizontal loading (shear). Wind and seismic forces are really the same, so why do it differently? Build the wall correctly by solid grouting and reinforcing steel and insulate with rigid or batt insulation.
|Sal Verrastro (Unregistered Guest)
|Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 01:36 pm: |
I suggest that you do some research prior to specifying foam-in-place insulation for CMU. Many manufacturers, if not all, use formaldehype in the manufacturing process. I believe the inserts are the better approach because you can still place the required grout, reinforcing and insulation within the same CMU cell, therefore providing continuous thermal insulation. I do not believe you can do that with the foam-in-place insulation. I suggest you take a close look at the web site for the CMU manufacturers (cbisinc.com).
Post Number: 15
|Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 09:27 pm: |
Now that you've been warned about hurricanes, earthquakes, fire, cancer, mold, and attorneys, here is the product that you asked about. It gets a lot of use in our area to boost the acoustic properties of interior cmu walls as well as a thermal insulation. I have been hesitant to use it in exterior walls, despite the manufacturer's insistence that it is an ideal replacement for rigid-board cavity insulation. Good luck determining what an "amino plast" is. They claim to contain no formaldehyde.
Post Number: 91
|Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 06:07 pm: |
That link is to the Florida applicator. The link to the manufacturer is: