| Author |
Message |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Junior Member
Username: David_axt
Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:49 pm: |    |
Does anybody use a database program for their binders? I am referring to kind or a card catalog type system.
We use a system at this office that is basically a large table in Word (we used to use WordPerfect). This system really works best as a database program and I am searching for the best (and easiest) program.
Thanks. |
Doug Frank CSI, CCS
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:58 pm: | |
David, I have set up a Microsoft Access database to maintain our catalog binders. It is very rudimentary, but does allow various sorting functions. It works pretty well but Access is not the most user friendly program and I do occassionaly have some difficulty in getting it to print in the correct format (I acknowledge it's user error) |
Colin Gilboy
Member
Username: Colin
Post Number: 14
Registered: 05-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:58 pm: | |
I use Lotus Approach to maintain the database of manufacturers for 4specs. I used PC-File for many years until windows took over.
Approach is easier than using Excel as a database and easier than Access (part of Microsoft Office Professional).
You may be able to import the Word table into Excel and then import that into Approach, so the data does not have to be entered. |
Marc C Chavez
New member
Username: Mchavez
Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:14 pm: | |
At Merritt + Pardini we have use of the Parametrix librarian. She uses an “honest to god” library program to keep track of things, with bar codes and everything!! But we only see here once every two weeks. She also has a budget for the purchase of national standards and codes etc. We also have our items listed on a company wide database so that (if you have the time) you can “borrow” a book from any of the 6 company offices. Cool huh!
You might talk to Rachel Stallworth. She has a service that includes keeping your library up for you. Her phone is 415.247.9940. She has a Seattle based person working for her so you can get local help.
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John Regener, AIA, CCS
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:35 pm: | |
Are libraries of product binders obsolete? I think not for designers but for spek riters I wonder about the values of technical literature in printed form in a binder on a shelf.
I suppose this is where a library service comes into play and where McGraw-Hill/Sweets provides service through CD's. But I prefer the Web. I'd rather access information from a manufacturer's website rather than a binder on a shelf in my office or even in the Sweet's catalog within arm's reach above my PC.
Two issues:
1) Obtaining and maintaing product literature in printed form takes considerable resource (time and money). CD's are some help, if you can find the CD and if it is as current as what the manufacturer has published in other formats.
2) Some manufacturers are reportedly restricting technical information from their websites out fo concern that the information might be erroneous and be used against them in a claim. (Well, duh, do it right and it's not a problem!)
Recalling that some offices use Sweet's catalogs as weights to hold pieces of models together while glue dries, finding information in printed form in an office can be difficult and time-consuming. I'd rather have manufacturers keep up websites with comprehensive, correct, convenient and clear information. |
Colin Gilboy
Member
Username: Colin
Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:40 pm: | |
I have been asking manufacturers what is "their legal document" in case of a dispute. I have been stressing that their website should be the most up-to-date (although I have heard a story or 2 about that not being true).
I have suggested that their website have a statement along these lines: "In case of dispute, the information on the website governs." I have also recommended a monthly copy of the website be retained on a CD-ROM for legal defense.
I have also suggested they change from a "Last revision date" to "Last Reviewed Date" to reflect that the website is being maintained, and was verified on this date, even if there were no changes.
Part of the problem is a struggle between the sales and marketing people who recognize that the specifier wants simpler websites with more complete design information, and their web consultants or IT department that wants to play with the latest toys, splash pages and dynamic websites. By the way, it is very difficult to make a copy of a dynamic website that can be easily retrieved by the lawyers in a discovery request. |
Doug Frank CCS
New member
Username: Doug_frank_ccs
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 09:22 am: | |
Regarding web-based product information Vs CD Vs hard copy catalog, I still favor the catalog. In fact I recently wrote an article on the subject; it's on the South Central Region web site if you want to read the entire text. (www.csi-scr.org under "Synergy & Articles")
My major concern with the web has to do with the inability to do "side by side comparisons" of products of different manufacturers, or of similar products by a single manufacturer. Without that capability, I find folks picking the first product they see that's "Pretty Close" to what they need; products from manufacturers I've never heard of; yada yada yada. While it sounds old fashioned, give me the hard copy catalog (at least for now). |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
New member
Username: Bunzick
Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 10:54 am: | |
Although my first source for information (and sometimes the only source) is the web, the web is still poor for browsing (and I don't mean this in the electronic sense.) Flipping through a binder is still much easier than the web, so there are times when I'm doing the most intense research where I will use both the web and a binder.
Too many web sites do not have product overview pages, where the basics of their product lines are described. As an example, I was recently researching "patio doors" and found that Kolbe and Kolbe lists "Traditional", "Classique", "Premier" and "HP" with no explanation of the differences in the lines. Perusing a binder makes this easier (though not always.)
The problem with information being accurate is not exclusive to the web. I have found discrepancies in printed materials as well. This is particulary true when in comes to test data and other specifics.
Colin is right about the flashy graphics. Spare me the TV commercial! Or at least confine it to specific areas, and keep the technical areas simple for when we need serious information. Make the web-site better than the printed materials. It has got to be cheaper to maintain than sending out a gazillion binders, which are nearly instantly outdated. |
Lynn Javoroski
New member
Username: Lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 05:28 pm: | |
Gee, it's nice to be in company that I can agree with instead of arguing with! Yes, binders are the way to go when you, designer or specifier, don't know what you want and need to learn what's available. Once a choice has been made, it's time for an efficient, downloadable CSI 3 Part specification, either on CD or the web. Save the intense graphics for something other than the opening page or the technical areas.
Lots of vendors out there seem to have gotten it right, so I know it can be done. When they get it worng, however, and the opening page takes measurable minutes to open, I'm gone and finding another site for another manufacturer that works more quickly.
And don't make me wait for 2 or 3 days for a password to enter the technical areas of your web site! I usually don't have that kind of time and once again, I'm gone somewhere else. And your product probably won't be in my specification.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that at least for the present, binders and electronic information are necessary and need to co-exist.
And to catalog those binders and CD's, I successfully have used Microsoft Access. It was a bit less than intuitive to set up, but once everything was in the data base, the user was able to sort easily by title, manufacturer, key word, CSI number, etc., and find anything in the library. Access seems to be the type of general software that is useful for this application. Although, if the size and complexity of the library warrants it, I'd probably look into actual "library" software and an expert in the use of it. |
Tracy Van Niel
New member
Username: Tracy_van_niel
Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 07:59 am: | |
I agree with Lynn. We both approach research essentially the same way and have a lot of the same pet peeves. Another one to add to the list is that I don't want to download copies of guide specifications. I want to be able to print them out because I do not use manufacturer's guide specs "as is".
We also use Microsoft Access. I had set up a library database at a previous employer using a different database program so it was just a matter of learning how to do the same thing in Access. We have a lot of different reports set up to manipulate our data different ways. The problem is finding the time to be proactive in getting updates! |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Junior Member
Username: David_axt
Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 12:33 pm: | |
In addition to having a product binder competition, maybe CSI should have a product website competition? |
Colin Gilboy
Member
Username: Colin
Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 12:36 pm: | |
CSI does have one. See:
http://www.csinet.org/technic/speccomp/scmw2003.htm |
Phil Kabza
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 10:11 pm: | |
Our librarians, after much urging from me, are maintaining a simple database for our binder library using Outlook, which all of our staff can access. We use the Categories area to indicate the first 3 MasterFormat designations.
As with other things technical, we have to remind our designers of the presence of this database about once a week.
Our binder library in in the far opposite corner of the office from my desk, and with a big pipe internet connection and ProFusion.com, I seldom visit it anymore. |
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