Don't use the words "Mat Hoist"...

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 425 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 01:34 pm:    This made my Monday! I got a letter from NGE stating that they have registered trademark for the words, "mat hoist". The ask that those words not be used except when only referring to their products. So be forewarned! If you want I can send you a PDF file of the letter. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 360 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 01:47 pm:    Right, and Xerox is not a generic term either! One could be really offensive and simply create a different generic term covering this family of product - including theirs as well. That ought to make them happy -grin! Anonymous   Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 01:59 pm:    Overhead mat storage system? Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 90 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 02:08 pm:    I noted in David's e-mail to me that the trademark was from and for Iowa. I do not live in Iowa. So why do I care. There are organizations and products and bars and restaurants in many states that have the same name. If these Mat Hoist people are serious tell them to get a US trademark OR stop bothering us. David, you'll note that they "asked" they did not "demand." probably because they can't. Any lawyers lurking that could give us the definitive answer on trademarks? David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 426 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 02:09 pm:    I just learned that Porter Athletic has the words "Mat Mover" trademarked and Draper has the words "Mat Lifter" trademarked! Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 123 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 02:43 pm:    We should be collecting royalties from those TV shows... Ralph Liebing Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 155 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 03:43 pm:    Let's be creative! "Mat Picker-Upper" By the bye-- is "Mat'l Lift", still OK? Lisa Turner, CSI, CCPR Junior Member Username: lisat Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 05:16 pm:    I’m not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV, but I do use trademarks and work with our attorneys to register them. Also, the owner of my company is a recovering attorney and I asked him for verification. I’ve never heard of a local mark. When I asked him about the local (state only) trademark issue, he chuckled. Trademarks are not generally local. While it might be possible that a state would offer such a service, why would anybody serious about protecting a trademark register their mark in a state only? That’s just plain silly. There are some restrictions in doing business state-to-state based on company-name, but that’s a different story. General guidance for trademark use: R with a circle around it indicates a registered trademark. It involves performing an initial search for items with the same name, filling out paperwork, proving use (showing it on packaging, shipping it out of state, etc.) and paying an attorney a bunch of money to make sure nobody else is trying to do the same thing. Until a trademark is registered, you can put “TM” after the word to indicate that it is used by you (no attorney assistance required), but it isn’t registered yet. You can use the TM indefinitely, but if you’re serious about a trademark and think you might need to enforce it, register it. Do not use the mark as a noun. Trademarks must be adjectives or they lose their trademark status. Sometimes the exact noun will vary (we’ll sometimes say “Wallwear wall and corner guards,” sometimes, “Wallwear integrated wall protection systems”) but it can’t be used as just plain old “Wallwear.” Companies make this mistake all the time and it dilutes the ability to enforce the mark if they ever really needed to. To use a trademark, Insert the “R” or “TM” after the first use of the mark on a page. After that, just use the word alone, but continue to capitalize it and spell it exactly the same. Do not, for example, use the word “wallwear,” only “Wallwear” when describing our wall protection products. I try to protect our marks by making sure that they are used correctly (as per guidelines above) in our own literature and that of our representatives. Regarding your fellow in Iowa – why is he bothering you if you’re specifying his products? Seems to me he’d have more luck selling his products if his trademark were being used, correctly or incorrectly. I correct people informally (verbally) when they use our trade names to describe somebody else’s product category, but I’m certainly not going to make a big case out of it. After all, if somebody were to google that name, they’d get our website. P.S. Don’t tell google I used their trademark as a verb. That really irritates them. Lisa Turner, CSI, CCPR Member Username: lisat Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2005 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 09:29 am:    There is a registered mark, first filed in 1999. Info at the attached link: http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=v5sed6.2.1 They are not using their mark correctly in correspondence(Mr. Axt sent me the letter). It is a very sticky situation for them, but understanding how to use their mark correctly might prompt others to do the same. Mat Hoist(R) wresting mat lifters (or whatever they are)might be really nifty, but if they're calling their products Mat Hoists, they are creating their own problem. P.S. That trademark seach engine is fun if you ever have any extra time on your hands... J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 46 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:48 pm:    While teaching a CDT class recently, one of the students asked me how could one know if something is trademarked or not? I was somewhat fabbergasted, but then thought that this was probably a really good questions. We should all know about "Fiberglas", "Kleenex", and "Xerox". Does everyone know that "Mylar" is DuPont's trademark for polyester film? Companies whose trademarked names for their products become regarded as the generic name for that group of products are very fortunate, and most marketing departments would kill for such a competitive advantage. The Coca Cola Company is very agressive about protecting "Coke" and "Coca Cola" which is why if you request a "Coke" in a restaurant that serves only "Pepsi", you will be asked if the substitution is acceptable--believe me, it ain't because they know some people don't like Pepsi Cola. When I am using a trademark, I usually put it in quotation marks and couple it with a reference to the manufacturer (I usually do not insert the circle R or TM--probably should). I also make a real effort to use generic terms and try to get the guys on the boards (OK, the men and women at the computer stations) to use generic terms as well; however, this can be difficult when the company's product information is so marketing driven that it doesn't provide a generic name for the product. Ms. Turner's comments on a trademark are instructive and her reference to the website could be very useful. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 334 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 01:29 pm:    Other examples from the construction world that spring right to mind, some of which are used more than others, and some of which are regional: Sheetrock, Gyprok, Visqueen, Styrofoam, Wolmanized, Gypcrete, Formica, Corian and Dumpster. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 427 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 02:08 pm:    The problem I have with this issue is the trademarking of standard english words. I can understand if the product is called "Mat Hoyst" or "MatHoist 5000" but "mat hoist"? What's next "toilet seat"? "stud wall"? "floor tile"? "bird bath"? Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: bob_johnson Post Number: 26 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 03:01 pm:    At one point during the drafting of MasterFormat 2004, commonly used "brand words" such as the examples in the posts above were listed under the Alternate Terms in the explanations with the idea of helping people to use the preferred generic terms. It was not easy to determine where to draw the line on what to include. A decision was made later to not include them. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 335 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:34 pm:    Not being able to resist a challenge, I found that though "toilet seat" is not a registered trademark, "Advanced Toilet Seat" is; "Stud wall" is not; "Bird Bath" is (for an airplane cleaning service, a car wash, and an alcoholic beverage)! Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 91 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 05:44 pm:    Oh you bad boy! I thought of the very same thing but not wanting to let the bird out of the hand I was keeping it quiet. Lets have a race to the TM office! Then I can get money for all the seats sold!!! Would that put me in the HOT SEAT?;) phil babinec Intermediate Member Username: pbabinec Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 12:07 pm:    There are some informed and appropriate comments on this topic of trademarks and terminology. On a personal note, as a specifications writer and a wrestling coach I take offense not in the terminology, but in the fact that they are even considering getting the mats off the floor.