Vandal resistant sealant?

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Author Message Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 136 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 04:27 pm:    I'm working on a parking garage with an enclosed stair/elevator tower and am looking for a sealant material that won't pull out in a big long thread if someone has too much time on their hands while waiting for the elevator. (or even better, can't be dislodged with a pocket knife). While this garage is for County employees, it may have minimal security and enough entrances to allow street access. Any suggestions that have worked for your projects? John McGrann Senior Member Username: jmcgrann Post Number: 35 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 08:00 am:    Pecora has a selection of "security sealants" on their website. The offerings include both polyurethanes and epoxies. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 95 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 08:42 am:    We usually specify two types of "security sealant" along with the usual collection of sealants found on a typical project. The first type, for moving joints, is a polyurethane with a Shore A hardness of 50. This is tougher than normal sealants, most of which have hardness in the 20 to 40 range. The second type, for non-moving joints, is an epoxy with a Shore A hardness around 80; it's more of a joint filler than a joint sealant. If I remember correctly, this stuff is like truck tires. The names "Sonneborn Ultra" and "Sonneborn Epolith" come to mind; we also have a couple of products from other manufacturers. The products have performed well; the problems have been making sure the right products get used in the right places. In some areas we specify a security sealant to a specific height above the floor, and normal sealant the rest of the way to the ceiling. Some joints require firestopping, which is easily damaged, so those joints are detailed with firestopping deep in the joint, and security sealant at the surface. Some joints get a heavy metal cover plate. I haven't found the perfect sealant - the one that is hard enough to resist vandalism, has large movement capability, has high adhesion so it stays in the joint, and high cohesion so it doesn't separate; there are always tradeoffs. At least in prisons the "guests" don't have knives! Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 89 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 10:58 am:    I have used pick-proof epoxies in detention projects. Kathy Greenway (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 11:24 am:    Is "Use of Foreign Materials" something that is included in a specification for public bid? If not, could you explain why? Thank you. Anonymous   Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 04:35 pm:    The Pecora products mentioned are probably DynaFlex and DynaFlex SC, both of which are tamper-resistant. Others tamper-resistant products I have heard of are Sonneborn Ultra, Tremco HPL, and Tremco Vulkem 617. Although the epoxy sealants are tamper-PROOF, they're strictly for non-moving joints. Would be curious to hear if anyone knows of others or has comments on the ones I've listed. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 372 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 05:29 pm:    We have a serious problem out here in the Pacific Northwest. It seems that seagulls like to peck and pull out silicone sealants. I am not sure if the smell attracts them or they do it because they can. Anyhow I have seen several areas of damage from these birds. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Monday, November 01, 2004 - 05:55 pm:    Probably juvenile delinquent gulls. Doug Frank FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: doug_frank_ccs Post Number: 87 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 08:35 am:    David, In another topic here, I mentioned a similar problem with birds pecking and poking a fluid-applied polyurethane roof membrane. Turned out is wasn’t the membrane they were after; it was the bugs and other little critters that were on (or stuck to) the membrane. I wonder if your seagulls are really after the silicone sealant or if the sealant has attracted other critters that the gulls like? Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 03:28 pm:    Is ASTM C 920 Use G for "gullible" sealants? Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 94 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 03:49 pm:    Sure, and if you're gullible enough to believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to show you... Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 91 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Monday, November 08, 2004 - 10:38 am:    Euclid and Sika used to make such sealants, looks as if they still do: EUCO #452-P EPOXY SYSTEM EPOXY SECURITY SEALANT http://www.euclidchemical.com/product_detail.asp?id=115&search=sealant Sika Pick-Proof and Tamper-Resistant Sealants http://www.sikaconstruction.com/con/con-prod-app-pptrs.htm