Lead Coated Copper

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Author Message lgoodrob (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:13 am:    We are interested in having more of our Architect clients use FreedomGray or zinc in lieu of lead coated copper, especially on LEED certified buildings. Does anyone have any data to support this position? Our argument is basically as follows: FreedomGray (and to a certain degree zinc) look the same as LCC, a dull flat gray consistent color. Lead is not healthy for the metalworkers. Lead runoff is damaging to the environment and groundwater at the building site. (I finally have hard data to support this.) Lead is not a healthy material to have on surfaces that children may come into contact with, like the walls at a school entrance. I believe Architects are selecting LCC out of habit and as a color choice, not due to any technical information. Is there any difference in availability, recycled content, weight, workability, or cost? Do you have any other comments or suggestions for me? Thank you all for your time and assistance. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 44 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:01 pm:    I'm aware of the product and it looks great. I have been removing lead from my jobs (lead pipe wraps at roof penetrations) for some time. I'm just waiting for the right job. Richard L Matteo Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 57 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:34 pm:    In California we have been requested to not use the lead flashing at pipe penetrations any longer on schools. What are other people using it its place? Follansbee also has a product called TCS II that gives the apearance of lead-coated copper but is more environmentally friendly. I used it a few years ago for a standing seam roof where we didn't want the rain to "wash" the lead coating onto the ground. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 113 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:45 pm:    we've been using zinc roofing panels for several years, and have used the Freedom Gray as well. In the 6 years I've been with this office, there has been no lead that has come out in our projects; we have been using alternate product types for quite some time. The Freedom Gray does weather to a dull gray, consistent color. We have experienced no problems with installation. We have also used Terne coated metal panels but they often come in too expensive for the project. The panels are readily available, and the workers know how to work with the metal. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 343 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 12:42 pm:    King County (Seattle) does not allow galvanized roofing or flashing materials without additional water quality management systems. The concern is that the sacrificial zinc will leach into streams and poison fish. (I'm not sure that I believe it, but it does not mater what I believe. They won't allow it.) Oddly enough we had to change our galvanized gutters to fluorpolymer coated steel yet we were allowed keep the galvanized downspouts. Lead is, of course, a big no no. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 07:48 pm:    Follansbee no longer makes terne coating, which is an alloy of lead and tin, on steel or on stainless. They have replaced this with a zinc-tin (ZT) alloy. Hence the name TCS II , which is their ZT coating on stainless steel (terne-coated stainless II). Like terne, when used on steel, the coating needs to be painted (on both sides of the sheet), and periodically repainted on the exposed surface. Although more expensive in first costs, we usually specify TCS II, because it does not require painting. David Cline Senior Member Username: dcline Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 11:39 am:    In addition to TCS II, Follansbee does make Terne II, the modern version of the original Terne. Terne II is drawing-quality carbon steel coated with ZT Alloy. It is an improved, corrosion-resistant roofing material, that is long lasting, has excellent formability and solder ability, has great affinity to paint, plus is strong and ductile having high yield and tensile strength as well as workability. I would agree with the previous post on sticking with TCS II because it does not require painting. With Terne II it is advisable to paint the material as soon as conditions permit. Oxide formation is slower than with the original Terne and the wait for proper painting conditions provides substantially less risk, but TCS II requires no painting. Rafael C Nelson Senior Member Username: rc_nelson Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 01:46 pm:    This comment is directed to Richard L Matteo. Who requested the discontinuing use of lead VTR fashing? Was this request based on scientific data? I have continued using lead flashings on built-up roofing at the typical conditions. Lead is used where it is, because of its superior performance in those particular locations. I have specified painting the lead with an aluminum coating, which in effect encapsulates the lead. My first suspicion is lead once installed does not leach, but speculation either way is just that, speculation. We’ve all seen hyper concern over some hazmats on one hand and completely ignore common sense safety on the other. Congress allowed the faucet manufactures and exception from the lead ban in solder. This situation would seam much more hazardous to people or eco-systems and yet it was allowed. Does anyone out-there know about lead leaching characteristics? David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 347 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 02:00 pm:    http://www.mst.dk/project/NyViden/2001/11160000.htm John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 178 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 10:14 pm:    The problem of lead poisoning of children would be stopped cold if school officials would prohibit children from climbing on the roof and chewing on lead flashings. Joseph Berchenko Intermediate Member Username: josephberchenko Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 04:11 pm:    David - Would be interested to know more about ban in Seattle on "galvanized roofing or flashing material." Is that a municipal law? David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 349 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2004 - 06:50 pm:    Our civil engineers tell me that King County (Seattle) Water and Land Resources, Surface Water Design Manual requires that rain water from galvanized roofs must go through additional water quality treatment. After that, I am afraid that I am out of my league.