| Author |
Message |
Kathy Greenway (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 05:38 pm: |    |
We are a manufacture who is spending $40,646 for the 2005 Sweets. That is not including the prepress costs of artwork for an eight page brochure. I have a meeting tomorrow with Norbert Young, Pres of Sweets Division. I would enjoy any commments or questions you have from an architectural point of view to discuss with Norbert. I appreciated the comments made regarding the useage of sweets from an earlier posted discussion.
(Kathy Greenway is with Platinum Visual Systems - Colin) |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 259
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 05:47 pm: | |
You might want to read this thread as well, as it contains some other insights on how specifiers work: "Anonymous" or "Known" Website Visits... |
Lynn Javoroski
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 142
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 05:50 pm: | |
Maintain current links to manufacturer's web sites or to someplace on Sweets web site where specs and drawings can be downloaded. And don't make us register to get them... |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 43
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 06:57 pm: | |
Sweets used to be an essential to our business. It is no longer. Although I love books and the ability to find other manufacturers by browsing through a particular category was a wonderful thing, it is a thing of the past. We will probably order Sweets this year but it will probably be our last as it is NOT the complete listing it used to be.
I like the folks at McGraw-Hill and don't mean to hurt their business but this puppy is fading fast |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 341
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 07:26 pm: | |
I agree with Marc. Sweets is history. I just walked over to our bookshelf. Here it is mid August and the spines on the books look pristine. Usually by June the books are so ripped up that pages are falling out of them. By the end of the year they are unusable and head to the recycle bin when the new books arrive.
Only one volume was missing. I figure that someone is using it to glue down a presentation board. I never see anyone in our office use them anymore.
The only time I use Sweets is to look up some obscure piece of equipment. Other than that I search the internet or use a website called www.4specs.com (ever heard of it?).
I remember when Sweets took up 3 bookshelves. Now it fits on one bookshelf with room to spare. Many times I find the information so brief in Sweets that I have to go online or to the product catalog anyway to find what I am looking for.
Our office will probably not renew our subscription next year. |
Ralph Liebing
Senior Member
Username: rliebing
Post Number: 103
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 06:58 am: | |
Also, there was a rigorous discussion in this thread-- "Anybody Use Sweets catalogs?" [see it below].
Might add that we also do not use their CDs |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:00 am: | |
The old green books, ain't what they used to be!!! |
Stephen H. Falk
Senior Member
Username: shfalk
Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 07:52 am: | |
While I understand that most of you have abandoned the "catalog" I still find it quite important when trying to show the "architect/designer" what we are talking about. The same goes for manufacturer's catalogues. While paper is disappearing fast, it still has a place in my office. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 08:44 am: | |
In our office, it is seldom that other architects or interns or technical staff uses any of the catalogs ... whether Sweets or manufacturer catalogs. I don't understand. Personally, I find that many times the hard copy can't be replaced by the web. This is primarily a speed thing as many websites are too slow (meaning navigation of a particular site is not always clear .. it is so frustrating to navigate a site in one direction, only to find it wrong and needing to redirect, go down the wrong avenue again, etc.). Also, there are times that sites are down temporarily (even if ever so temporarily), and I can't wait ... deadlines ya know!
I love the web (and yes, this site is my primary search technique) but I can't do without that darn hard copy either for our primary product sources. |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 10:27 am: | |
I use the Web almost exclusively for product research. Sweets.com is a big component of that search. I rarely use the "big green books" anymore. I do use the individual binders quite a bit for the following reasons:
(1) Sometimes it is easier to have a discussion with someone over a book rather than on the screen.
(2) Sometimes the web site is too difficult to use or requires registration.
I also find it useful to scan the shelves for other "adjacent" manufacturers of products I am looking into. A web search does not necessarily produce similar results. I am finding that I also use MasterSpec's listing of manufacturers and reference data.
Bottom line: While the "big green books" may be history, www.sweets.com remains useful. |
Shelby N. Gordonswyth
Senior Member
Username: shelbyng
Post Number: 8
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 11:12 am: | |
Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I still use Sweet's; perhaps not quite as often as I once did (maybe because, with experience, I'm not "starting from scratch" as often). But for years now I have resisted picking up literature (or saving stuff received in the mail) when I see the Sweet's code in the upper right corner - I know I can find it in Sweet's. There's a certain immediacy and convenience there that the web will never have. And though catalog binders may languish unused on the shelf for months (or more), their depth of detail is invaluable when one needs it.
Not that long ago (but pre-web), I looked for a major manufacturer in Sweets and was shocked to find it missing. And I didn't have their binder - I counted on them always being in Sweet's. This was an industry leader, a name intimately linked to its product category. Turns out their marketing department had decided to sit out that year, which they soon realized was a big mistake. They were happy to get me a big binder, but it took a while.
I have never found the Sweet's CDs or the CD versions of catalogs convenient, and almost never use them, except for those CD libraries of industry standards, such as those offered by the tile and masonry industry associations. Those I need, keep and use.
Although I find First Source uniquely valuable for its near-comprehensive listings of manufacturers, the first place I look now is usually the internet (using 4specs or a general-purpose search engine). But too often I find web sites frustrating - too slow to load, too hard to navigate (and sometimes even to read), wasting too much bandwidth on useless or even counterproductive "web design" graphics at the expense of clearly-presented technical info, product comparisons, guide specs and recommendations for use. Fine print, gray print and sign-in screens are BIG turn-offs. (Specs in WordPerfect format would be a plus.)
Sweet's years may be numbered, but I'll be sad to see it go... |
Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 112
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:41 pm: | |
we took a survey in our four offices last year regarding Sweet's and it turns out that about half the staff still likes to use them. I agree that they don't have that beat-up look at the end of the year anymore, and I don't remember the last time I cracked open one of the books, but there is still some interest in our staff. I was hoping to phase them out, but I'm thinking that another 3-5 years might be about right. |
Helaine K. Robinson CCS
Senior Member
Username: hollyrob
Post Number: 68
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2004 - 04:40 pm: | |
As a specifier, I almost never open a Sweets volume anymore. I concentrate on keeping our product binders up-to-date. As the cost of Sweets rises, the most useful information (for me) is often jettisoned.
I use 4specs.com and dogpile.com on a daily basis. I rarely use CDs, ARCAT, Sweets.com or FirstSource. Sometimes I use Thomas Register. |
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