| Author |
Message |
Margaret G. Chewning CSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: presbspec
Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:03 am: |    |
I have just picked up a project where the Owner is requesting a foamed in place insulation product in lieu of fiberglass batts and vapor barrier in the walls. This is a renovation/expansion of an existing house so there is new construction as well as some extensive rework of the existing structure.
AS much as I'm all for updated technology the Architect and I have not used this product before nor have we heard a lot from colleagues. Therefore we are a bit uncomfortable in spec'ing it. One product we are looking at is a polyicynene foam insulation. Brochure looks good, but...
Does anyone have experience/knowledge of these types of products and give us some warm and fuzzys or alarms about this?
Thanks
Margaret
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Rich Gonser AIA CSI
Member
Username: gonserarch
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 03, 2004 - 12:54 am: | |
A quick search popped up this link;
http://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/household/search?tbl=type&queryx=Insulation&prodcat=all
I know it isn't quite on point, but, it relates to health hazards via the product MSDS sheets. In our health conscious-litigious(panicked) world, there could be something useful there for us to know. Such as to how to handle (or avoid handling) a certain product.
It does, however, list a few other spray foam insulation choices that are residential applications.
The interesting part about this site is it from the National Institute of Health.
Good Hunting,
Rich |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 53
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 04:50 pm: | |
Margaret,
I would look for NER reports from one of the code bodies, and third-party test reports for ASTM E84 and E119 tests to demonstrate the flame spread and combustion characteristics of the stuff by itself and within assemblies. I'd keep a thermal barrier minimum of 1/2 inch gypsum board between the stuff and any occupants or open attics, and fireblock cavities every 8 feet. While I was at it, I'd see if it had been tested for support of mold.
This stuff likely shrinks some after installation, which means that air and vapor could migrate around its perimeter, even if its vapor permeability numbers looked good in testing.
If I had any hesitance about the stuff, I'd document in a letter to the owner, and ask them to direct you in writing. If they want to play architect, they should carry the risk. Good old batts work pretty well in most places. |
Randall L. Cox
Junior Member
Username: randy_cox
Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 09:01 am: | |
In the Boston MA area, polyicynene insulation seems to gaining a foothold. Icynene seems to be the generic name for polyicynene around here. I haven't used it yet (it's more expensive than batts, or cellulose). They have a fairly extensive binder at http://www.icynene.com/assets/Architect/Architect_Binder2.pdf, which seems fairly complete to me, plus the reps that I’ve talked with seem fairly knowledgable (although sometimes a bit like evangelists for the church of icynene). |
Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: rjray
Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 09:16 am: | |
Some years back, when these types of products were first introduced, I performed some crude testing to get a feel for the moisture absorption properties. I wasn’t impressed. My concern would be that if the product you are considering would retain moisture and cause rust to metal framing members or decay of wood framing members.
I have seen these types of products installed in residential projects that I have not been involved with, and did not observe any shrinkage.
Depending on the climatic conditions of the project location, I would be concerned with the omission of a vapor barrier that the Owner is suggesting.
If “health” issues are the Owner’s concern, one might consider suggesting cotton insulation (Bonded Logic, Inc. “UltraTouch.”) |
Curt Norton, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: curtn
Post Number: 52
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 09:23 am: | |
Margaret,
I saw an education program done by Icynene last year at the CSI show and invited them to do their presentation at one of our chapter meetings. It is not like other spray foam insualtions. It stays spongy, and can move with the building a little.
One other difference, its vapor permeability is higher than the polyurethane products. In their literature, they recomend a vapor barrier for applications in areas as cold or colder than Madison Wi. They recommend a low vapor permeable paint.
We just completed one job with spray applied foam insulation, and will likely do it again. It was not the icynene product though.
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Russell W. Wood, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: woodr5678
Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 08:58 am: | |
We researched Icynene several years ago for a high-rise residential senior living project in south Florida. The builder said the product is excelent and said he even used it in his own house. However, the builder said Icynene is too expensive for large commercial use. The product expands to fill voids, prevents air leaks but is also permeable enough to allow moisture to pass through, all critical features in south Florida. |
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