Concrete Countertops

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Author Message Nina Dillon New member Username: nina Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 09:57 am:    We are looking at specifying a Concrete Countertop, likely field cast. Does anyone have recommendations, warnings, suggestions on the best way to specify this? David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 261 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 01:30 pm:    Check past issues of Fine Homebuilding magazine. They had a coverstory on building and finishing concrete countertops. I'll check but think someone stole that issue of mine. Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 124 Registered: 05-2000 Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 01:43 pm:    I have a concrete countertop here in Truckee. It was a field built one. Everyone oohs and aahs over it, but... I have been very unhappy with it as it is almost impossible to seal - as in a sanitary seal. The area by the sink absorbs water and that means to me that germs can grow. I have tried waxing it and the sub applied many more coats of sealer before we started to wax. The sub who built it did a much better job on the next one he built. I think the secret is in how it is done. I would suggest the countertop be ground once the concrete has a soft set - say 24 hours or so. Some of the most spectacular countertops I have seen were almost like terrazzo with special aggregates and ground, ours was just a simple concrete coloring with sealer. The Concrete Network has some info on concrete countertops: http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/countertops/index.html David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 262 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 01:52 pm:    http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/nmbh019.asp G. Wade Bevier, CSI, CCS, LEED New member Username: wadeb Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 01:58 pm:    I had an opportunity to tour a concrete countertop fabrication shop when I went to the SE regional conference last year in Greenville South Carolina. They do both field casting as well as other custom work. Their name is Concrete Canvas and they can be reached at http://www.concretecanvas.net/2.0/home.asp They are using technology that has been developed in California regarding sealers and general fabrication techniques and methods. You might want to contact them to see if they can help with the details of creating a concrete counter top to suit your needs. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 02:38 pm:    There is a book on concrete countertops; I've seen it listed recently in the Edward Hamilton Booksellers catalog. But that's at home. If you're interested, look for it on their website first, before trying Amazon (EHB specializes in closeouts, so their prices are discounted). (The post with the book link to Taunton just popped up as I write.) That said, I must add that, IMNSHO, the use of concrete for countertops is at best a misguided and lamentable practice, apparently driven by the delusion that because concrete is so closely identified with modern architecture, it's appropriate, or perhaps that because such use is unexpected - and therefore presumably somehow innovative - it is "creative". Concrete is about as inappropriate for countertops (at least in kitchens, bathrooms and elsewhere where sanitation is desirable) as anything I can think of. So far, I haven't heard of anyone using exposed wallpaper, balsa wood, rattan, thatch or damask on counters, so maybe there is a line drawn, somewhere. Concrete is a great material for a lot of things, but it IS brittle and porous. It requires careful sealing, and periodic (frequent!) re-sealing to maintain any semblance of sanitary suitability. And if damaged, it is difficult to patch or repair. If smoothly finished, its surface is usually dried cement paste, which conceals its strength and true inner nature - the large and small aggregate. (Grinding the surface reveals that nature, producing terrazzo, sometimes called "polished concrete" when conventional aggregate is used. But, except for enhanced smoothness, it is still as unsuitable and unsanitary.) Concrete has been used to make boats and banjo necks, but it is not the material of choice for either. I'm trying to think of an appropriate but unconventional use - conceivably, it might be appropriate for counter or table tops in the boardroom of a company in the cement or concrete industry. Face it - concrete just doesn't belong on kitchen or bathroom counters. If modern architecture has anything to do with the "nature of materials" and using them in ways appropriate to their nature, this is a perverse, rather than natural, use. And I think such use should be actively and specifically discouraged, with at least written disclaimers, if not publicity. But "modern architecture" is now just another historical period, relegated today to historicist revival by postmodernism (a subsequent but short-lived period), which spurned much modern dogma. So, if the desire here is for the unusual, unnatural, unexpected, or otherwise inappropriate use for its own sake (such as using asphalt concrete pavement as a dining room floor), then go for it... End of screed... John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 210 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 05:39 pm:    Hmm.. Interesting points. Makes me wonder -- has anyone tried using pozolans or other indgredients used to make high-strenght low-absorbtion concrete (for a countertop)? What about hydraulically-rammed low w:c ratio concrete, then polished? Or treatment with crystalline products that reduce permeability? I'd also be tempted to use polymer-matrix terrazzo, though it doesn't look much like concrete. How about custom printed high pressure laminate that looks just like concrete? (wink, it can be done!) Granite suddenly looks pretty good. Nina Dillon Junior Member Username: nina Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 06:07 pm:    Thanks for the comments. Our use is for a picnic shelter vending area. It isn't so much the aesthetics we are looking for as a durable, vandal resistant, cleanable surfaces. There had been some discussion about Stainless Steel. This surface will be exposed even when the vending area is closed off. We are also trying to consider which might be more cost effective. John McGrann Senior Member Username: jmcgrann Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 08:06 am:    Might look at something like precast terrazzo. Wausau Tile comes to mind as a possible source. Randy Cox (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 09:13 am:    I remember looking at concrete countertops a year or two ago at a home show. They were not inexpensive. The countertops I saw were beautiful, requiring "only a coat of tung oil (or something like that) once or twice a year." These countertops were not field fabricated. That company has a stainless steel casting bed in their shop, which allows them the highest degree of control possible. I would be cautious about using concrete in an outdoor space because concrete can be broken, sparayed with paint, marked with markers, etc. They use stainless steel in jail cells for a reason. Regarding the "inappropriate for countertop" line in an earlier post. I think that concrete, properly constructed and maintained is as reasonable a choice as many others. My spouse is high maintenance, a choice I gladly made. So, although concrete didn't work for my kitchen, I can imagine that many people could love it. Ralph Liebing Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 69 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 10:36 am:    Just another thought-- have seen use of natural stone [marble and granite] used in residential kitchens, re-done on the This Old House, TV series. May be pricey, but also may prove to be a good alternative with a tested history.