Masonry ebedded flashing

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Author Message Patc (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, March 05, 2004 - 09:15 pm:    I work for a small roofing company and after a job meeting the super told me he needed me to get the through wall flashing material to the mason. I told him I didn't supply the through wall only step, valley and pipe flashing. The masonry specs clearly state the mason is to supply all embedded flashing. What would be the usual procedure? Thanks, Pat John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 194 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 05:30 pm:    I have often found that an experienced roofing contractor with sheet metal capabilities will furnish the material for installation by the masonry contractor. However, that doesn't mean that the roofing contractor "owns" furnishing it. The mason may pay the roofer to fabricate, but they also tend to pick the shop that they want to do it. It all comes down to the contract you signed with the general contractor and the specific wording of the specifications. If your contract states you will provide everything in certain spec sections, you may own it, but it also depends on what the masonry spec says. Generally, specifications do not place requirements on specific subcontractors, only on the work itself without regard to who performs the work. (There are exceptions, such as in Massachusetts public work.) You need to sit down with the GC and mason and hash it out - there's no fixed answer. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 07:38 am:    Thanks John, The job is in fact for a city in MA. We are still working it out. I bookmarked this forum thinking maybe some input from the contractors side may be of value from time to time. What do you think? If I may be of value I'll register. Thanks, Pat Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 74 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 02:51 pm:    Input from contractors valuable? Yes! Register. There are many times when a point of view from someone else would be welcome. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 195 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 09:23 am:    Pat, Since you state that the job is in Mass., I'll throw out a few more observations. As you probably know, both masonry and roofing are filed sub-bids, but sheet metal per-se is not. In this case you do need to get down to the specifics of what section includes what work. If you bid on the roofing sections, and they included sheet metal work, you may very well "own" the fabrication of all of the sheet metal the mason needs. Provided, however, that the fabrication of the masonry flashings were not fully included in the masonry spec. If the masonry spec called for them to be "installed" and the sheet metal spec calls for them to be "furnished", then you definately own them. This is the common situation I have seen for mason's sheet metal flashing. You also need to look at the notes on the drawings which may assign the work to a specic sub-bidder. However, I have not seen the documents in question, and it is possible that these items were distributed between the trades another way. These are the areas of filed-sub-bidding that are often not cleary delineated (and one of the reasons designers do not particularly like sub-bids.) Hope that helps. Of course contractors are welcome to particpate in this forum! Patrick Conway New member Username: patc Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 04:02 pm:    Thanks John and Lynn, There is no Sheet metal section, and we find nowhere in our roofing section specifically requiring us to supply material for masonry flashing. We are meeting tomorrow and right now it seems we need a definition as to what an imbedded flashing means. I checked all the links I found in the thread here regarding an online dictionary, but no luck. Any suggestions? Thanks, Pat Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 75 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 04:27 pm:    Pat, My company's Division 4 Masonry Accessories section includes through-wall flashing, which I assume would be the same as "imbedded" flashing. It is quite often sheet metal, prefinished (Kynar); our state specs call for stainless steel, 24 gage. Sheet metal flashings in general are found in Division 7 - 076xx. Through-wall flashings can also be a rubberized membrane, like Perm-a-barrier; sometimes they have a metal edge. If the flashings are not in the masonry section, and there is no sheet metal section, I think you have a change order situation. (By the way, a friend of mine, Patrick Conway, is the International Masonry Institute representative in my area...he can be reached at pconway@imiweb.org) Patrick Conway Junior Member Username: patc Post Number: 2 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 04:43 pm:    Lynn, This is getting weird. The mason and the roofer have the same name? While browsing through this forum trying to figure this out I saw your question and answers re: dryline. Whenever I have heard it used on the job hear in the good old USA it refers simply to a chalk line w/ no chalk or simply a piece of string Thanks' Pat John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 197 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 08:39 am:    Patrick, 1) Get a copy of the masonry section and see if the through wall sheet metal material is specified there. If so it is not your responsibility. 2) Look at the masonry details and see if it identifies the sheet metal as coming from the roofing or masonry contractor. If nothing - no help. 3) Look carefully at the roofing section to see if it requires "all sheet metal on the project" or some such language. If so, an argument can be made that you own this material, though it may not be a very strong one. I'm surprised that you haven't run into the scenario on another project where you would provide sheet metal to the mason. Next time you'll know to ask this question during bidding! Good luck. Patrick Conway Member Username: patc Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 11:40 am:    John, My boss just left a meeting with the Architect, and mason. The problem is still not resolved but we need to get our stance to the Architect in writing. I had emailed this thread to my boss and it was useful helping him compose his thoughts and present a clear representation of our point of view. It's the Architects call now and I'll let you know how it went. Thanks, Pat Patrick Conway Intermediate Member Username: patc Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 07:15 am:    John and Lynn, The architect decided that we will supply the flashing, however the PM and super feel we got a raw deal and I went to the site yesterday and the detail is now being changed to a combination of fabric membrane and copper to complete the flashing. We consulted with an architect that we have done business with for years and he was very upset that the decision went against us. He's a very principled guy and wanted to intervene for us with the Architect and the AIA, but we decided it wasn't worth it and we will absorb the additional costs. Thanks for your help in this matter and I hope I can give some positive input from the contractors side in future discusions here. Thanks, Pat