Having reps review the specs

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 196 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 08:48 pm:    What do you guys think of the practice of sending specification sections to product representatives to have them review? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 20 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 09:38 pm:    I send spec sections to reps all the time, however I also do not revise the specs based on their comments, I find though that some of their comments are positive and useful; as long as you remember that they are trying to sell their products, having another set of eyes looking at spec sections in their area of expertise does not hurt.IMHO. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:01 pm:    I also do it routinely with certain sections. I frequently involve product representatives in reviewing roofing, door hardware, paint, and elevator sections. Also when I have to write a custom section for specialty assemblies, such as point supported glazing systems or grandstands. Jerome's advice is very good - most reps have their own built-in preferences that we have to weigh objectively, but along the way we learn much more about their products. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 163 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 09:19 am:    I find it particularly useful when I've had reps for several competing companies review the same section. It's very interesting to compare the comments coming back. Also, when I have done this, there's less chance of complaints from reps about some perceived slight in the way a section is written. Reed Condit (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 06:05 pm:    I think doing so is always a good idea. Much can be learned from a good rep, but unfortunately there is not often sufficient time to have as many reviewed as one would like. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 131 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:35 pm:    My experience has been less than satisfactory when having product reps review specs. The issue is not so much technical as it is procedural. Product reps tend to be weak on spec writing and strong on the construction technology they represent. Often, the response I get when asking a product rep to review a spec section is a copy of the corporate standard specifiction. Sometimes these are fairly high quality, such as ManuSpec documents. Sometimes they are well-written, as I have found published by Arcat. Another source of well-written manufacturer's specifications is Product MasterSpec. Most of the time I find that manufacturer-produced specifications do not conform to CSI SectionFormat, do not adhere well to the principles and practices of the CSI Manual of Practice, are written to establish trade and subcontract jurisdictions, and are exclusionary of other manufacturers, despite assurances otherwise. One recent roofing spec was supposed to be a "performance" specification when it turned out to be a proprietary specification that had the manufacturer's name deleted but left all the product trade names intact. So, should specifiers seek assistance from product reps when preparing specifications? Yes, certainly. But do so with awareness that the most that can be expected is an imperfect review that should be checked for provisions that might be contrary to the interests of the owner and architect. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 21 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 01:05 am:    John, I've had that problem with reps reviewing my specs and issuing their canned specs, however I stipulate to the rep that I expect to see his comments of the specs that my office produces. In order to get what I want and need I bribe my reps with a job list that I issue to reps of the current jobs in my office, in permitting, and/or under construction. Our job list includes the names of the major players incl. Owner/Developer, Architect, and GC with contact names and phone numbers. Since most of our work is private sector, this information is not easily available and the reps whom I choose to review the specs value this list and their updates, in turn I get valid responses to my queries and accurate information in a timely manner. Sometimes I do not get useful responses, and in turn those reps don't get updated job lists. I also find that many reps appreciate the lists as I personalizse them with comments that their products are being specified on these projects (which they are) - the reps use this to impress the powers that push their buttons that they in turn are successfully promoting their respective products.